Neptune, Freud, United States discussed on The Astrology Podcast
As he described his confrontation with the unconscious and By releasing the Red Book we actually have taxed that allows us to make the call the judgment of what seemed to be going on for him and rather than biographers surmising based on a lack of material. So I think it's been really important that it was released to fill in the picture as the editor Sony Sean Dasani has said it's Yong's questioning of his own sanity. Dat is a mark of sanity that he is aware of what is happening to him. At a level where he still able to be rational and reflexive upon it and actually analyze it and come to deep psychological understanding not only of south things that are applicable to other people may not see extraordinary things that his psychological theories that do have so much grounding and these experiences are widely applicable to others understanding our own psychological processes. Okay that makes sense and when his break with Freud was just like a few years before that right am I remembering the time line correctly where those in the early nineteen teens? Yeah it was That's exactly right that so He the break with Freud. Was I think right around? Nineteen twelve might even actually have been in nineteen thirteen because what instigated. The break was a was young's book which is now published as symbols of transformation. Just remembering the German title right now. Which is von Neumann Symbolic Veto which was published in two volumes in nineteen eleven nineteen twelve and. That really was his. That was his own break in terms professionally in terms of differentiating. His theories from Freud's saying that the Libido is more than just sexuality deliberation was creative psychic like like force and so that led to the schism between corden young and very quickly on the heels of that he then went in taste descent. Which I do think the break with Freud was part of what led to it. I mean just professional ostracization and so on but also that it's more than just the break with floyd. It's what's happening the collective. I think. That's where actually the astrological perspective can be so helpful. He's tapped in in a way to the archetypal. Zeitgeist and is feeling DOT SATURN PLUTO ENERGY. Coming in that unleashes in the first World War which so many people did not see coming. That were just took the world by surprise that there were so many different alliances that than triggered a vast conflict that really. Nobody predicted the level of destruction in so many at so many different In so many different forms so and yet young is kind of tapped into that at a psychological level or at an unconscious level. And I think that's what's really pushing through him. That comes through these prophetic visions but like so many prophetic visions. You can't really say what's going to happen from them. Until it's in retrospect. I don't think while I know that he wasn't able to look his vision of the flood in sale. This clearly is gonNA lead to a vast geopolitical global conflict. He thought that this was just something going on in him. Right and here's for those watching the video version. Just to copy of young chart is the staife the birth time right is he like to Aquarius. Rising not seems right to me. This the sun is It might be three but because the sun was right on the descendant but that's very very close okay And you were talking about His son Neptune Square in that being part of what was getting activated as the Sun at Three Leo and Neptune at three Toros. Yeah and so the the honest Neptune at the time was just crossing right over. Neptune conjoining his son on your honest conjoining his ascendant in just completely activating While yeah that's a pretty intense set of transit's either. One of those in it of itself would have been intense but having exactly on the ascendant descendant access and conjuncture sunscreen. Upton at the same time is is a lot it was. It was huge earned completely life-changing for him and then going back to the Conjunction of Saturn and Pluto because that might provide a good transition point into our next topic. What was the range on that or I guess? This is where there's sometimes debates about one of the debates national community is about orbs when a configuration. Our planetary alignment comes into effect. Exactly but what timeframe are you giving for that conjunction timeframe? I'm giving the conjunction using fifteen degree. Orb is about nineteen thirteen through Thank Tina than okay. Let me pull that up. So we're talking about Saturn's Pluto the Saturn Pluto conjunction which eventually went exact in what it looks like early cancer. And it's so young. I Flood Flood. Vision took place on October Seventeenth nineteen thirteen and you can see that sovereign emplo are approaching each other at that point and then were within two degrees when the war was declared right at the end of July nineteen fourteen and so that Saturn Pluto alignment really dominated the first part of the first World War and interestingly. It's the other big alignment that you can see happening. There at the start of the war is that Jupiter you're honest conjunction and so you have both the intense level of destruction of the war starting and also this Jupiter. You're on us kind of naive sense of excitement about it about what it meant and all of these young men signing up to fight in the war and just to give their lives really on behalf of what an idea. Patriotism The Nation. And that you know there were even German English scholars who were studying together in universities Kark Ball see you on the battlefield. And how strange naive that seems And then of course as the war unfolded there was. It was the first Who fought in that? War called it the first war of the machines because this is when technology in terms of the machine gun in terms of tanks and so on had surpassed battle tactics and that the old battle tactics of having a linesmen run across. No Man's land didn't work anymore. They're not running into bayonet fire or arrows. They're running into machine gunfire and into tanks and it just didn't tactics didn't align with the technology and really the war in so many ways ended in demoralisation. And you can see that transit shift actually from the solder Pluto that cataclysmic intensity at the beginning to Saturn Neptune Saturn Neptune alignment in the later years of the war That was really peaking around. Nineteen sixteen during say the battle of the song which is one of the most just kind of heart wrenching battles to read about just a complete failure of imagination on the part of the British generals for example and just young men science being cut short in the mud of trenches and so on and so it carries that kind of Saturn Neptune ceiling of the conjunction there of the demoralization and the lack of imagination and the just saturated in mud and infection and flees them trenches so a big shift in energy in a lot of ways from Saturn Pluto Disaster Neptune. You actually see that. Same Arc in the Second World War which started cataclysmic Louis. Under a Saturn Pluto Square nineteen thirty nine and ended as well under a Saturn Neptune demoralizing transit in the mid forties. I'm so interesting that both world wars carry that pattern. Yes and so. Maybe that's a good transition point into the other topic which is outer planet cycles. And this is something that you spent a lot of time focusing on and started to specialize in to some extent right. Yeah I mean I think that my interest of course outer planetary cycles is definitely informed by the astrological lineage. That I'm carrying coming out of. I mean that's the same perspective that's put forward in house most psyche for example and I think at one point I set myself the task or the goal of wanting to be a humanist semmaris for Outer Planetary Alignments in at least like the last century or so. I don't I haven't it's going you know it it's in process is always the case but it's it's definitely something that. I enjoy being able to kind of feel those rhythms of history. And that's what. I love about Mundane astrology is that instead of history just simply being a series of dates every year has qualitative meaning to it and so it becomes easier to have a handle on what alignments happened at which particular times because a number of me takes on a quality instead of just a quantity. I think that's something that astrologers all experience. Yeah I mean studying. History is really fun when you apply astrology to it because all of a sudden you can see these weird patterns and cyclical movements happening underlying world events. Where if you're looking at it. In a long enough timeframe you can see the connections between the events through the movements of the planets and archetypes manifesting in that way over long periods of time near absolutely one area that that. I found really interesting is when an individual is born under one outer planetary alignment and then some way they come into prominence will really come into their own or create their great work under another alignment of the same planets so no one example that it's kind of a classic example that I like is of Barack Obama who was born in nineteen sixty one the beginning of the year honest Pluto conjunction. And how much you're honest. Pluto conjunction of the nineteen sixties is connected to the Civil Rights Movement for example until the history of your on US Pluto alignments correlate with different stages in the abolitionist movement for example and that Obama than was elected as president in two thousand eight. Right at the beginning of the next alignment of your honest and Pluto. When they came into a square and so worn at the beginning of your honest Pluto conjunction and coming in to prominence being elected president of the United States. Under at the beginning of the next alignment of those seem to planets. Yeah I hadn't noticed this before. But his charts actually similar to young and that he's an aquarius rising with the sun. Urine has conjunction Leo. Just kind of funny. Yeah that's true. And they. They both have a son. Neptune Square as well right with Young's being down early tourists as Neptune in Obama's being bed. Eight degrees of Scorpio on the other end interesting. They both have that kind of a charisma that can come with the sun. Neptune and certainly the capacity to carry on image and projection of a certain kind of image as. Well sure so. What was the so? You're pointing out the year. Ns Pluto conjunction in his chart. And then what was the later transit manifestation that he was elected president of the United States? At in two thousand eight. Right at the beginning of the next alignment of your honest Pluto. So when they move from the conjunction that they were coming into our when he was born and he spent the first decade of his life living under that conjunction and then he's and then he's elected to office right as those same. Two planets are coming into alignment again in in so many ways as the first black president in the United States carrying the promise of the civil rights movement in the nineteen sixties so semantically. There's a connection as well but astrologically to there's that connection. Okay that's really. I love that. That's a really good example Just because of how central that the urine urine as Pluto conjunction was in the nineteen sixties on the civil rights movements and some of the other things that are happening in that decade another example that is also connected to your Pluto. A different you're on. Pluto seem also liberation of oppressed people but instead of African Americans in the United States. It's women and the feminist. Manton Women's movement and if we go back several centuries to Mary wollstonecraft. Who's born in Seventeen Ninety five? She was born with the Ranas Pluto Square and she published her manifesto which was called vindication of the rights of woman in Seventeen Ninety two under the subsequent opposition of your honest and Pluto. That was the same opposition that happened at the same time as the French revolution and this text indication of the rights of women really is kind of the foundational text of European Feminism. And again this theme she was born with your on a square pluto and then publishes this work under your hones- opposite. Pluto. Her daughter actually was born under that. Same you're on. Us opposite Pluto alignment just a few years later. Her daughter is Mary wollstonecraft shelley. Who wrote Frankenstein? Which was published under the next alignment of your honest and Pluto? And there's a relationship between your honest that kind of trickster awakening archetype and Prometheus the the myth of Prometheus and the subtitle of Frankenstein is the modern Prometheus. So you have here. Not just a multi generational pattern of your honest Pluto alignments within one family. But they're also those dealing with different feminist issues. Mary wollstonecraft in a very clear way. Vindication of the rights of women and then Mary Shelley and more may be subtle or creative ways. Calling out the impulse of Dr Frankenstein to create life without a woman that a man can be the modern for media's steel fire still life from the heavens and create a life without the the nurturance of a family context without the feminine outweigh. So that's another one of those patterns that I thought was quite interesting. Sure so so. The underlying principle two but one of them is sometimes people boron under specific alignments especially hard aspects of outer planets. We'll have an important development that represents that at some point leader in their life. When there's a similar alignment especially hard aspect by the same? Two planets horse isn't always the case. Some people will come into greater prominence under a different alignment. But it's maybe you know. Of course they're having their charter. Their transits are being activated. In some way. That's it's just a more complex expression so this isn't a hundred percent consistent pattern but it is quite interesting when it shows up when someone's kind of carrying something maybe on behalf of a generation for example and express that in there being in their work and are raging between these alignments in some way sure In the the second one is that especially outer planet conjunctions will lay the seeds of the foundations of something that will then grow and develop a over the course of that cycle however long..