Wind Pompeo, President Trump, Kansas discussed on Article II: Inside Impeachment
Hey It's Chris as you know sometimes it's good to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take a broader. Look at the issues. That's what I'm doing each tweet. My podcast why is this happening. Were exploring topics ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think it is. Climate Change will be to the twentieth century. What maternity the the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice. Everything you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations. As you know for the first time in our history. The national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years. And I. I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. When you've gone which was recalled as this campaign to disparage or is is playing out? Her replacement is bill. Taylor Bill Taylor had held held the post before had impeccable credentials when it came to to representing the United States in Ukraine. But Taylor of course has emerged as one of the most certainly from the trump critic standpoint. They viewed him as one of the most effective witnesses in these impeachment. Hearings was it. POMPEO's call to get Taylor in there as the replacement Ivanovich. And and what was that relationship like Pompeo and Taylor see. That's a key point. And that's what illustrates the nuance. Here you can see that fused fused approving and seeks out the appointment of an equally seasoned experienced diplomat to replace your age that seems to indicate indicate that he doesn't want a yes person there and so you'll have defenders of Pompeo say hold on if he was so weak on all of this he could have appointed someone else not not someone of stature. That Taylor House so you can see him unable to defend Yovani bench presumably because that would put him completely on the outs with President trump. So we had to bow to that demand to get rid of her but then he tried to salvage the situation by pointing tailored to replace her. That that's how people in the building have perceived it and that's a retired diplomats have perceived that I mean. Yeah it sounds like what you're describing a secretary of state who's sort of torn between between a desire to run the department one way and a sense that there are they imperatives. He has to address that. Take Him in another direction. Yes I think. Compels story is incredibly illustrative of the trump presidency. He's really trying to thread the needle. And it's not clear that it's possible and I think Secretary Mattis when he was defense secretary. How to similar kind of dilemma? You know how do you try to steer the ship of state state in a more constructive direction but still not completely. Have a falling out with your commander in chief and man is found that it was not possible and in the end he resigned and now you see pompeo where what if he had. We could ask the question. What if he had stood up for Maria von which what? What if he done that publicly? What would have happened? You know would trump. Dan said that you know you're disloyal. You're defying meet your out in. We won't know but I think think Taylor appointment is really interesting because it does illustrate him trying to thread the needle and maybe not succeeding. But maybe that was what his intent was. It seems that we're this is also shaken out in terms of his standing in the administration. That at least you know pompeo standing with trump. It seems he's in trump's good graces. I say this because you've got this the situation out in Kansas. There's an open Senate seat up for election in twenty twenty couple. Republicans out. There are already running. There's this big fear sort of in the Republican establishment. That Chris Chris Kobuk. He's the former secretary of state in Kansas. He ran for governor out there last year actually lost as a Republican in Kansas. A bit of a controversial figure. There's a fear among Republicans gins. He'll win the primary and maybe possibly potentially put that Senate seat at risk in the general election and so there was trump last week on Fox and friends basically Gli floating the idea of pompeo former congressman from Kansas. Going back in running for that seat. There's been some speculation. POMPEO might be interested and he came to reinstate look. I'd rather stay where I am but he loves Kansas. He loves the people of Kansas if he thought there was a chance of losing that seat I think he would do that and he would win in L. landslide because they love him. That told me and tell me if I'm wrong here that told me. The pompeo still seems to have trump's confidence I guess is the question. Is that alive live possibility that that Pompeo might step down in the near future and go back to running for office absolutely. It is very much alive possibility. And it's no secret that he's interested and it really probably would be his for the taking. He probably would have a really good chance of winning that seat now. Trump's comment you never you know how to interpret Some of the president's suggestions and the one hand it's a compliment it's also a way of showing him the door politely right because no question the report and the relationship he had with the president earlier has diminished absolutely and there are many indications of that and yes pompeo. AOL has not publicly defended some of these diplomats testifying but he also hasn't necessarily always come to the defense of trump or Giuliani agenda in such a public way. Always so there's no question there's friction there now so any perhaps in trying to please both sides he he ends up irritating both sides on on this You mentioned the condition of the State Department. Wind Pompeo came in when Tillerson was leaving if POMPEII does leave here to ruin for Senate in certain for any other reason If he were to leave. How would you describe the condition of the State Department now? Things are not good. I think that would be a fair statement. David there are very few people in the building who say that things are looking bright and Rosie. Now of course it's bureaucracy of of thousands of people and not everyone is affected of course. But there's no question that morale has been damaged and of course morale wasn't was already low before Pompeo took over so as a whole number number of things happening here first of all. There's an inordinate number vacancies. Many many positions have not been filled. So they have acting people in a lot of roles. Then you had an exodus of senior diplomats mainly earlier in the administration including a a number of women number of of minorities and then there's another other data point here the number of young people who are taking the foreign service exams for difficult exam to try to get into the foreign service. That number has dropped so the pool of people people applauding as declined. And then I think in the end the woods what's really the key here is watching. And hearing this testimony money from these experienced career diplomats who are very nonpartisan figures and having to hear and see what happened where these diplomats were. were seeing this Iraq. Irregular Shadow foreign policy being carried out where the professionals weren't being consulted. And maybe even being undermined so I think a combination of all of that. It has really damaged. The outlook for people work over there in Dan so many times. I've been asking you in this In this interview What pump say about this? What's his answer to that? And the answer here comes back that we we just haven't heard much from him. We haven't heard a real full thorough accounting of all of this. I'm curious what your senses are. We going to hear Something more comprehensive from him before this. The impeachment drama is over we'll we'll Democrats seek to compel that from him or is what he has said so far going to stand. I'm sure that somewhere. Some time he will want to have his say and maybe that will come when he leaves and goes to run for the seat in Kansas. But in the meantime he's being accused of obstruction by the Democrats because the State Department has refused to hand over a lot of documents as really refused to cooperate for for the most part and it is ironic. This is the guy who ran the Benghazi and quarrier congressmen and demanded large amounts of documents and testimony from everyone including the Secretary of state at the time Hillary Clinton Clinton testified for many hours and hundreds of thousands of documents and it over so people have pointed pointed out. This is a certain contradiction here. Dan Lewis National Security and global affairs reporter for the Investigative Unit. NBC News Dan. Thank you for joining us. Thank you And there's some other news buzzing around the impeachment inquiry that we are watching this week Devon newness the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee who has been a central figure in these impeachment hearings reportedly played a direct role in efforts to dig up dirt on Joe Biden in Ukraine that is according to live Parnis one of Rudy Giuliani's associates in the Ukrainian pressure campaign. He was indicted last month for campaign finance charges. When asked about the accusation on Fox? News over the weekend. Were you Indiana which Shokhin Nunez had this to say look I really want to answer all of these questions And I promise you absolutely will come back on the show and answer these questions but because there is criminal activity here we're working with the appropriate law enforcement agencies. WE'RE GONNA file all this. Everyone's going to know the truth. Everybody's GonNa know all the facts but I think you can understand that I. I can't compete by trying to trying to debate this out with the public media. When ninety percent of the media are totally corrupt parnes says he is is willing to tell Congress what he knows as part of the impeachment inquiry? That is a story. We will be following closely as it unfolds. Article to incite impeachment is produced by Isabel. Angel Max Jacobs clear tie Aaron Dolton preteen Vardhan. Alison Bailey Adam. Boa and Barbara Rab. Our executive producer is is ellen. Franken Steve Lick tie the executive producer avoids. I'm Steve Kornacki will be back on Wednesday..