Tic Tac, China, Gordon Gordon discussed on John Batchelor

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John Baxter. This is John Tic tac. Tic Tac is an app. It's for shopping. It directs its attention, mostly to young people, but at this point, it's in the consideration of the old ones that would be China and the United States and other interested parties. A such as Microsoft, the latest on TIC tac. China announces new export rules that could prevent sale of TIC TAC Microsoft, WalMart and Oracle are all vine by Tic Tac's U. S operations. First graph China has announced new export restrictions for artificial intelligence technology that could complicate bite dances, plans to sell off the U. S operations of his wildly popular tic tac app. The Trump Administration has ordered by tends to spin off its U. S operations or shut them down by November. Gordon Chang at Gordon Gee, chang and we're joined by Brandon Weichert of the Y Could report Brendan, I come to you because You're a lot closer in age than I am to the people who seem to have a fever for Tic tac. What is it about this? That's different than every other shopping app. What What can you do with tic tac that you can't do with Amazon? Good evening to you, Brandon. Well, good evening, And thanks for having me. It's the I think it's the kind of the personal connective iti you can. You can change and Taylor your your use of tic tac in a way that you can't do an Amazon. You could do videos, you, Khun. You can have funny little skits. You and your friends do it appeals to people who are even younger than made because of sort of the banality of of the app, and it's very interactive and use your friendly and so it's sort of. It's all the hallmarks of that that very important 18 to 25 year old demographic. Understand Gordon. This as the U. S is going to shut down operations in November. Let's buy dance A sells it now, Gordon. What Brendan just described seems harmless. What's the threat? The threat. John is that TIC Tac has been used to surveil American users without their knowledge on. Also, there are allegations that software has been downloaded onto user's phone surreptitiously, but also the most important thing, though, and this gets rarely talked about Is that Beijing apparently can manipulate the tic tac algorithm so as to influence people politically, It's not just a question of what you shop. It's a question of how you vote. So Tic Tac has a very sophisticated artificial intelligence that encouraged that sends the curates videos so that people will be motivated to act in certain ways. Give you an example. On the Tulsa rally that President Trump held in June. People who were anti Trump used TIC TAC to start and to propagate a campaign to reserve seats, which they had no intention of using. Tic tac was able to curate those videos so it would send them to people who would be inclined to do the same thing, Brandon, we're talking about a Trojan pony here. Okay, fine. I get that right Is China is China's headlines here suggests that it's going to In some fashion prevent Tic tac from selling off its its U. S operations. Now, Trump says he's going to shut it down. China says no, we're goingto consider before you can sell. Tic tac is it looks to me like Tic Tac's The loser from both sides. How does it look to you, Brandon? Yeah, basically part of the deal that they want that American launches. Tic Tac is gonna have to hand over their source code, which is sort of the Holy Grail. Ah, and that's one of the sticking points and I think the reason it's one of the big sticking points. Is because exactly as I have said before to you, and as Gorby just alluded to. Ah, this APP is a Trojan horse. And so they don't want to be caught with their cookie in the your hand in the cookie jar, And so I think that the China's basically gonna play tug of war with us, and you're right. It's not a good position to be in if you're tic tac because you're going to get hosed. Either way, you're gonna lose market share. In America on your going, obviously lose sort of that ability to surveil on. If you don't do what America wants you you're going to be losing your market share anyway. And so it's It's not a good position to be in Gordon Gordon as I recall after the PRC aggression of the Himalayas. Wasn't tic tac part of the apse that were banned from India didn't hip Ticktock Ticktock get kicked out. Just did when India band I think 59 or 58. AP Tech talk was one of them. And therefore tic Tac is losing everywhere Now. The puzzle here, Gordon. The puzzle for me is Is this where China wants? Does China want digitals nationalism? Because China's the loser here it doesn't get access to India or the United States. And if you're making money on shopping, that's where you want to be. Of course, China wants tick talk to be able to penetrate India. First of all, It's very lucrative for bite dance, which means it's lucrative for China. But also they get to surveil Indian users and get to manipulate them as we talked about and so being shut out of India is a big blow for tic tac and being shut out of the U. S would be an even bigger blow. So right now, Tic Tac is At risk at a number of different places, Brandon because this is about Microsoft, Oracle WalMart Cesar big as simply 500 companies and if China shuts them out, don't they go and create their own opportunities here? Doesn't this create a vacuum in our market? Tic tac could easily have an imitator correct. Well, yes. And in fact that could be you know, you could see the reverse of what's been going on in China happening here a TTE same time. So you know Eric Schmidt from Google has been warning about the splinter net. The rise of, you know, implicated Internet. As I've argued, since 2019. We've already seen that and we see this in China actually would love that because that would give them more control over their near abroad. In Asia, Asia is the largest market share. It's a hugely lucrative, robust market and the Chinese love tohave a dominance over that market share. And so we need to be cognizant of that, and Yeah, You could be seeing imitators rising here, and that's not necessarily a bad thing per se for us, But we do need becomes that as we do the couple, we're gonna need to also be aware that we don't want to lose our access to that Asian market because China's going trying to push us out. As as were the couple in Gordon. We chat is another app. I believe that India band is that next for Ah, ah, digital nationalism. Well, President Trump When he issued his order on Tic Tac issued a companion order on we chat, which was essentially given them 45 days to cease operations in the United States. So, yes, the two are comparable. We also got to remember that we chat has been surveilling users as well. So there's a national security component to both the weak chat and the tic tac bands. And other app sous. Well, Gordon..

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