Galactic Centre, Galactic Center, Phil Plait discussed on Stuff To Blow Your Mind


Would you expect to see something like that. Would it be a survivable region and it it seems like this is not fully settled settled but we were discussing some potential risks of living in the Galactic Centre. Yes I was looking around for some more details on this in this brought me as questions like this often due due to Centauri Dreams which is wonderful space website and I was reading a blog post by the writer Paul Galster of the Planetary Society in which he looks to the work of Sergei nine auction at Leicester on the idea that the donut shape the dust clouds obscuring half of supermassive Asif black holes might be the result of crashes between planets and asteroids occurring it a thousand kilometers per second speeds pounding everything into into microscopic dust so it's a realm of of a violent collision higher radiation but he points out that while those planets are doomed anything actually any of the planets actually in that region or potentially doomed the resulting dust blocks harmful radiation from all this chaos from reaching the rest of the galaxy the host galaxy us. That's interesting yeah we were talking in the last episode about how dust clouds obscure the galactic centre from our point of view like it's harder to do astronomy looking towards the Galactic Center I would imagine that brightness has something to do with it but also yeah the dust blocks our view does significant dimming it causes many magnitudes needs of extinction to the sources coming from that direction but we do have methods of looking that way now we can do astronomy focused on the center of the Galaxy. I think due due to stuff like looking at infrared and and x-rays I was also looking around and found some writings on this from Phil plait of bad astronomy always a great reader space related topics any points points out that in some galaxies called active galaxies gas and dust fall into the yawning black hole at the center of the galaxy forming a disk of material sometimes hundreds of light years across again. This is going to be a room high temperatures high radiation in intense light that outshines the rest of the galaxy and that would mirror mirror some of the phenomenon we were talking about in the last episode like you've got like this quasar something super powerful in the middle of the galaxy that just sort of like it's sort of is the galaxy and right but fortunately the Milky Way Galaxy is not an active galaxy. It's a quiescent galaxy so it's not quite the cosmic forge we we find in other galaxies where he was just super intense. It is to a certain extent slumbering and we're able I mean I keep coming back to the idea of they're just being like an awful powerful eldrick Deity Center of the Cosmos and we're just lucky that it's the we're in a cosmos a little worn now now taking a lengthy slumber I think at the end of the last episode you were you. Were you sort of fought against the idea of thinking of black villain I know I don't want to think of black black holes. Being you know this has off figure but it's hard. It's hard not to when you when you re things like this so I guess we've been looking at answers for were mostly like no. We're looking at the idea of the inner galaxies a place where you're probably not encountering you know planets where life is evolved there. There are a lot of risks in the Galactic Centre because you know the things are more densely packed. There's probably more radiation risk probably more gravity disturbance risk but at the same time they're more more stars. You might just get more chances for things to evolve there so it's it's like I was saying it's not settled science but you can point to some things going on there and say it looks it's like there are are risky phenomena near the Galactic Center now indeed if we are dealing with a habitable zones and you know uninhabitable zones of the Galaxy one thing to keep in mind is that technology can potentially change things sure. I just looked our solar system. Yes earth is the like it's it's the the bowl of porridge the gist right but we've discussed on the show plenty of times that there are plan their ideas and concepts where with sufficient technology humans this could live on Mars they could live in the clouds of Venus even here on Earth. We have a neutrino observatory at the South Pole. You know we've got or at least yeah deepen Artika. That's not a place that's inhabitable by Mammals J. C. You know so like we we have found technological ways of overcoming the environmental limitations imposed by the universe and you can see that even without us leaving our host planet so you know if you can build a research station on the South Pole where no mammal like us should be able to survive if you can potentially build a Oh if you can build an I. S. S. and live out in space. You know you can imagine okay just extrapolate that up however many orders of magnitude whatever scale you're talking about to our power to live beyond our original organic means yes. We have to come back to something we've discussed the show before sort of a proposed technological ladder to to God hood if you will the Carta Chefs scale Um an old favourite yes so you got you got basically you've got type one type two and type three and I've also seen people discuss the possibility of the type four but a type eight four so far beyond where we are now. It's almost not even worth thinking about what's even like type. Three is hard to imagine what that would look like. you know we've got more like science is fiction that kind of deals on the realm of one into yeah so we're not even type ones yet. I'm close type A type one civilization the Carter a chef scale should be capable of harnessing all the energy of their planet because basically that's what the scale is about. It's about a civilization's ability to to harness ernest energy yet to take what's there in the universe and turn that into the ability to do work now of course that doesn't necessarily mean work like it's hard to do that could be operating the video game systems of the future whatever to turn it into usable energy right yeah so so again. We're not type one yet. If we harness all the the power all the the the energy of our planet we would be type one. The next step is is a is a type two in which a civilization has become masters of their own star essentially solar our solar system level power and then that type three which is an enormous step then from from from step to a step three civilization has the power of an entire galaxy at its disposal. It's hard to imagine it is very difficult to imagine it against so difficult to imagine agean it it it's almost ridiculous to try and think of what is beyond that you know in in so most of our conversations deal with one two and three most deal with one and two two so level one into the Carta Chef scale would theoretically have access to technology we refer to as dyson sphere named for theoretical physicist assist Freeman dyson and these are essentially means of surrounding a power source in harvesting all of its energy they're different varieties of this. You don't need necessarily think of a hard sphere though I love to because it pops up in that episode of Star Trek but it could also be more like a dyson cloud it could be you know satellites lights surrounding something absorbing his energy so it's maybe oversimplified but the classic example would be just surrounding the sun with something thing like solar panels yeah so you get all of the energy out of it you can just sort of like release waste exhaust outside and use everything the sun can give you yeah the still suits of Dune are sort of dyson spheres for human sweat human moisture. Yeah don't waste a drop yeah. So how does this tie into supermassive acid black holds holes. You might wonder well. I was reading a very interesting paper. this is from a two thousand eleven edition of the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society Eddie and this is buying and Uku titled Tight Three Dyson Sphere of highly advanced civilizations around a supermassive black hole. I read a quote from this quote. A Society of a highly advanced civilization is supposed to require a huge amount out of energy to operate the social system as the gravitational energy released by the accretion of matter into a supermassive black hole is huge a system must speed developed to use this energy in such a society the condition around a supermassive black hole at the center of a of of the galaxy would be more efficient both in extracting acting energy and exhausting the waste energy for advanced civilizations than those of a dyson sphere so basically they're arguing like hey we've touched on before there's a lot going on at the center of the Galaxy. There's a lot of energy at the center of the Galaxy. any sufficiently advanced civilization would go where the energy is and presumably zoom ably have the technology to harness it right extract that energy and do something with it rather than letting it just turn into radiation space yeah so yeah they point out that a huge dramatic radiation energy generates in close vicinity due supermassive black hole in here. You know this accretion disc rotates around it so the potential energy of the creating matter releases to form a hot and dense disk. Sorry I was just for a moment trying to imagine what we would do with it would be like I let's is load up the ten billion spaceships full of coal and take the center of the Galaxy and let the supermassive black hole burn the coal and and then we can use the heat from the cold powers yeah. That's our solution yeah. That's not quite the system that they're proposing here this. This is what they add quote radiation from the accretion disc will be collected by a mere system as a type three dyson sphere waste material and energy he could be thrown off toward the central supermassive black hole and the supermassive black hole would be the final reservoir for all the waste materials for any civilizations. Thus the most advanced civilizations would develop their activities using a supermassive black hole efficiency putting the the power plants around the supermassive black hole at the center of their home Galaxy Galaxy. Wow that's pretty out there. Yeah that's interesting yes so from here they lay out a power plant system that amounts to a sort of dyson sphere or shell. The energy from the power plants is then transferred by electromagnetic waves to habitats of advanced civilization which would be as imagining more sustainable stable regions and then these transmissions would also serve would serve as a power grid but also as highways highways for vessels more or less sailing them as if they were sailing you know the solar wind so putting power plants on a supermassive supermassive black hole well. We're not quite on right close to and then they touch on that to Have you know basically asking answering the question how close with these power plants be right yeah. They say that considering secretaries a star the closest you would be dealing with the closest distance the closest orbit would be six hundred r s that's sort shout radius and they said that the proper area for the power plants and their model would be around one hundred in three to one hundred and four are S.'s also basically just like a hundred of the radius of the black hole region itself self out. I mean that sounds frighteningly close but then again conceivably this would be a civilization that assuming they're not entirely technological by this point you know they they even have any kind of like you know of physical remainder in their their their being their culture again it's difficult to imagine some of these civilizations with him could consist of but even if they were in some way organic still X. Surely this would be the domain of robots they send out yeah the robots into do the hard work at the center and then beam that energy back to the centers of civilization. I feel so two ways race about this because on one hand it's like I I love the idea of people trying to work out how Carter Chef level three power plants would work out would function but on the other hand is just like who don't even we're not. Even you know level one yet yeah so you you have to imagine that even if these authors are totally on the right track that probably a lot of details we haven't we haven't really faced yet and don't really know how to incorporate but at the same time this is this is such a blessed project imagine all right. Maybe like a billion years in the future. What is a what is the civilization due to get their power? Yeah I love. I love papers like there's not now to be clear again again. This is all theoretical right and it's something the authors say we might look for but there's no evidence that something like this is actually going on anywhere in the universe so okay so this is another example as has often been done before where working out the details of potential dyson is fear type project would be mostly useful in the search for extraterrestrial life right right what would be the signatures of this type of technology..

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