Sons and daughters is not just you're not just talking about daughters. No, absolutely, and we're getting these messages coming out. Listen, thank you so much for coming in. If you want to listen to our next item, you can put those headphones on. You'll be able to listen to our conversation. Dame rose to remain there at speaking to us about her latest novel lily. We'll get to talk about these so called daddy issues. Some people squirm at the idea of this, but it starts out as a kind of psychological concept. It's become an easy jab at women across pop culture. Do they exist? What impact do they have? Let's speak now to Katherine angel, who is an author and an harrod George Carrey, who is the host of the daddy issues podcast. Good morning to both of you. And it's interesting when you say daddy issues to people, Catherine. People have different views on what it means is that you put your dad on a pedestal and no one can ever reach those heady heights, or is it that, you know, maybe you feel let down and you're constantly trying to make up for that? Well, I think the phrase is partly a phrase that points the spotlight at women themselves, actually rather than their fathers. So it's often used as a way to invite us to mock. I think or scorn women's sexual choices. So the idea being that if women have daddy issues, they're somehow fallen for a version of their father. But I think what's interesting is to kind of turn the spotlight away from women's so called daddy issues and think about how we represent the relationship between fathers and daughters and how the representation of that relationship can actually often serve to teach us lessons in gender and lessons in heterosexuality. So in part, what I'm interested in is how we may have forgotten about fathers when we think about feminism..