Like with david jacobs head on the show a couple times and also kind of interleaved those interviews with a woman named mary rodwell. Have you ever heard of mary. Rodwell show show well known nice. Nice very nice person. So they're kind of going back and forth on this issue that you explore in the book of the goody versus batty evily t versus spiritual loving here to bring transformation kind of et and david jacobs. Who is it's important to know. I think if i can interject i think david jacobs and a bunch hopkins have to be understood from an atheist perspective. That's what they see. When you talk spirituality those guys it just complete they go. You're not mean there's not any of it anyway. So why even talk about it. And that's how they see it but they also have some pretty solid evidence. They bring back that. That says that i mean like david jacobs. Some people criticize him that. He's not a professional hypnotist. Well i gotta tell you as a pretty smart guy. I think he trained well enough and it sounds like his protocol was pretty good. He tried to intentionally mislead people. You know he would say okay. Now go over to the corner of the craft and they'd go. Okay wait a minute. There is no corner of crafty goes. Okay yeah that is confirming what you said anyways. I don't want to long in the story but being david jacobs. I'm interviewing mary red bull. They're going back and forth one sank. Evil batty t sense. People back rapes people which comes through again and again. I don't know how how we understand. That inside of our culture is anything other than the ultimate intrusion of our personal space and that is reported and then go to mary. Rodwell says look deeper. You know there's a spiritual thing but here's the point. David jacobs one. I'm sure is. This is a project this program. This is like as we would understand it in our world. Somebody's trying to get some shit done right. So then i go. Manic say merry. What about that long pause and she goes. Yeah well it is definitely a program. They are doing some kind of genetic manipulation that means they are doing something. There is an intention allergy to it. There is a directive to it. And so i guess i'd throw that out there and what do you think about that. We jump into that other space of other rea- you know other dimension and stuff you know. Well listen as jack valenti and other experts have said if that's the case they're very bad scientists because they have to keep doing the same experiment over and over again they want to know how reproduction reproduction works. So they take the guk. The man and woman sometimes people who know each other and make them have sex in front of the alien beings so they can understand reproduction so as one anthropologist told me for my books you don't need to do that. You just get a hygiene manual reproductions. Nothing ought to figure out to make people go through that again and again and again and to you know examine the bodies again and again through all these medical procedures that you know the experiences detail. At great length the actually describing the instruments used a. So why do they have to do it again. and again..