Because of my grandparents relationships, but I also imagine that most folks who want to be community were feeling pretty nervous that evening, especially if they had loved ones who had gone to participate in the rally. So it was really a community wide concern and probably not just limited to people who had experienced the terrorism of having crosses burned on their properties or feared for their safety because of the people whom they loved. Absolutely to hear the story of your mother just a young child at the time hiding under the bed. It's just really, really shocking. Let's go ahead and listen to another account. We're going to listen to an audio excerpt from someone who was there during the confrontation with the KKK. The museum of the southeast American Indian at the university of North Carolina pembroke interviewed a number of people about their experience that night for DIA locklear was among those. They spoke with. She was 24 years old in 1958, and this is an edited down version of her 2018 interview in which she talked about going to the KKK rally with her husband, Wiley. David's going round to us out of our homes. That was their intention. So we went. And when we got there, they had the pet form. For the idea of catfish to do is talking. When he started talking on the microphone, they started shooting. They didn't let him talk period. He got gone. They were shocked. They had no dreams. We would be there like we were. If we wouldn't have gone, they would have come back. And they were a had more than what they did have. And that they put into paper next week. They would be in St. Paul's. And I'd be there. That was a talk. They was in the paper. So while he looked at me, he said, you want to let go. Let's go. So we went to saint bowels. But nobody came. If they did, they had. We didn't see how long. That night. I feel like we made a difference. I put it like that. I feel like we made a difference. That is the late for DIA locklear from a 2018 interview she did with the museum of the southeast American Indian at UNC, pembroke. Ryan, this is just such a fascinating story and I had never heard it before until late last year during the campaign and of course to Charles Graham video that came out was just such a really powerful video and are you aware of other groups, Ryan, during that time during the late 1950s standing up to the KKK and North Carolina? I'm sure there are multiple examples. The only one that I have read about occurred around the same time and an African American community in Monroe, North Carolina, which is almost two hours away from robeson county. Stood up to the Ku Klux Klan in their part of the state. I don't know many of the details about that encounter, but it leads me to believe that there may be many other untold stories of resistance to the Klan that need to have light shine on them. Lawrence, how about you? Any other examples of similar resistance during that time in North Carolina? Not that I'm aware of unfortunately. Okay. And how about the Ku Klux Klan now in North Carolina? Is it active in Robson county or other areas near lumpy country? Lawrence? If the Klan is active here in Robson county, they're not public. I think the Klan is definitely still active in North Carolina. But I don't think they've done anything publicly here since that time. Because I think they're afraid of retaliation from the Indian community if they do. They learn their lesson that first time, probably. Ryan, how about you? Have you heard of any other rallies or any clan activity and any part of North Carolina in recent years? Yeah. No, I'm sure like Lawrence said. I'm sure they are around, and I'm sure that there are some activities, but none of those are happening publicly in or around lumby territory. All right, now here we are 2023. This event occurred 65 years ago, in some ways our country has changed so much. And in other ways, maybe it hasn't changed quite as much with some of the recent social and political turmoil that we've experienced. So what do you want our listeners to really take away from this story of the battle of Hayes pond? Yeah, I think that's a really great question. I think it's important to remember that it's not that long ago that we lived in an environment of racial apartheid here in the south and in other places across the U.S. I talk on the phone and give hugs to people who remember that time distinctly and I don't want the I don't want the closeness of it to be lost on people who are growing up today and may not have that same connection with people who were there and who remember the events of Hayes pond. So that will be the takeaway for me is just remember that it wasn't that long ago. Was it that long ago? Let's go ahead and bring another perspective into the conversation, joining us now from Winston Salem, North Carolina is Chelsea Barnes. She is an attorney and senior associate at Nelson Mullins Riley in Scarborough. She is lumbi. Chelsea welcome. Thank you. Chelsea, what did you first learn about the battle of Hayes pond? I tried to think about that in pinpoint it and I can't be certain, but I know that it was when I was a child. I couldn't be more specific than that though. And what was your initial reaction hearing this story as a child? I remember hearing the strangers being really proud of my heritage and who I was. I think my mother and my grandmother told me about it. And I think, you know, you don't often hear stories like that. So to me it was really inspiring and something that I felt should be shared far and wide. And earlier I asked Ryan, what people need to understand and what we need to take away from this story. And can you add to that? What do you think that the message here today in 2023 is? I think when we think about issues of race and diversity, it's always sometimes painted as an issue of black and white, and I think it's a lot. More complex than that. And I think especially in our society today, as we're continuing to navigate newer versions of these issues, racism still exists, maybe it's not so quote unquote in your face, but I think that these are still important issues to think about. And I think that this is a good example of what confronting that can look like. I think it's a good important piece of education for our children to be reminded of what their ancestors did and inspiration for them in terms of what they can do to make our world today a better place. I think we would be in this not to acknowledge that there's still racial tension in the south and specifically in the heart of the lumbee community as well. So I think that's something important. To just keep in mind and I think this can be a source of inspiration for us. And Chelsea, lumbee children today, the battle of Hayes pond, do they learn about this in schools and other programs there within the community? So I grew up a little bit outside of the travel community in a suburb of Fayetteville, North Carolina, so I can't speak to what the children learn and Robinson county, which is where most of the lumbee community is centered, but I certainly hope that they do. I have friends who are raising children there now and I know that there's an intense focus on teaching things of cultural significance. So I would expect that this definitely is something that comes up, but I can't be certain. And do you know of any events, planned either for today or later this week to commemorate this event from 65 years ago? I will defer to some of the other callers to see if they know of anything. I don't specifically, but I do know that the tribe is highlighting some of the history and significant components related to it on their Instagram page. So there might be some announcements there too. Okay. Wonderful, wonderful. Lawrence, how about you? Are you familiar with any events? Anything else going on? No, I would just echo what Chelsea said, social media is being used to promote this event widely tribal members are sharing. I'm seeing non tribal member share. So I think I'm seeing plenty of action on social media, but I don't know about in person. And Lawrence, the battle of Hassan, I mean, when you reflect now on lumbee history and just so many events over the years and the battle of Hayes pond kind of fit in in that narrative of just the overarching experience of lumpy people over say the last hundred years or so. I think it's one of the more prominent events formative events in lumby history because let me people have struggled since Europeans first arrived to assert their identity and to step out of the shadows and say, hey, we're here recognize us. Indian people are still here. And you had this event in 1950 where lumbee people finally did that and it received national attention. And so I think for the first time, people nationally were talking about the lumbee people and who you are in this one moment in time that truly reflected the struggle that we have faced in fall against for the past 400 years. And so I think all that came to a head that night in that swamp outside of max and where Indian people said enough is enough, this is my community. You don't belong here and nothing that you do in this organization brings value to us as a society and the people. And we don't stand for it. So get out. So I think this was finally one opportunity where we stood up and said, hey, we're lumpy. This is our home and we're here and we're going to protect it. Anyone listening with a question or comment for today's show, we are talking about this historic event 65 years ago, the battle of Hayes pond when a large group of lumbee tribal members confronted a Ku Klux Klan rally. There are active KKK chapters in 41 U.S. states according to the southern poverty law center with between 5008 thousand active members. Interesting statistic there to take note of. Again, anybody with a question or a comment, give us a call. One 809 9 6 two 8 four 8. Let's bring another perspective into the conversation now, joining us in pembroke, North Carolina, is Tammy maynor. She's the director of governmental affairs for the lumbee tribe, and she is lumpy. Welcome to native America calling, Tammy. Thank you for this opportunity, I'm pleased to be with you today. You bet, Tammy. Anything to add to the story of the battle of Hayes pond? Well, I will share that the tribe will be posting an invite on for Friday at T and a.m.. We have two individuals who will be hosting a zoom. Mister Jim Jones and jet Lowry will be speaking on their account there, remembrance of that day. They were actually there at the battle and they're going to speak on that day. And that will be by Zoom 10 o'clock a.m. and that zone link will be pushed out later today. For everyone to be able to log on and hear their recount of that night. So I think that's going to be a great conversation between GM and jag. Well, Tammy, thank you for that information. Let's shift gears now and talk about the present. Federal recognition for the lumpy tribe. What's the status now? Well, as you know, Congress just wrapped up back in D.C. and we feel short for a federal recognition last year at the end of the 11th hour, lots of effort was put forth by our senators, senator TLS and senator Bern, of course, in the house on the house side GK voter field, but we did come up short on our federal recognition. Had a tough year. I think there was a lot of effort, a lot of good things came out of the past year. Of course, our lumpy Bill was introduced in both houses. It was an identical bill in previous years. We've had different looking deals and introduced, but this past year we had a ride down uncle. And the decision was made to focus on the house first and that resulted in a swift non controversial passage of the bill. I think some of our greatest successes over the past year were, of course, with GK Butterfield and the House of Representatives where we saw great bipartisan support in effort to introduce that legislation, GK Butterfield being a senior member of the majority was very, very helpful this legislation had great support in the house with the house natural resources committee, our ranking member of the committee. We had the indigenous people subcommittee who supported the bill as well as all of most of North Carolina's as well as most of North Carolina's delegation. So it looked like a bipartisan bill and it got a lot of support also from the Native American caucus on the Senate side, we had definitely support from tillis and burr and burr has since retired. And just to clarify, these are the North Carolina U.S. Senate senators, yes, and Ted bodies now replace senator burr. We did have holds placed on our some holds were placed on our lumbee recognition Bill. But those as our Bill moved through our senators, the intern around, our state senators placed holds on other Indian bills to try, which brought awareness to our loan BO, of course, that was moving through the process. And but in good faith in a good faith effort to show senator shots, who was the chair of the Senate Indian affairs committee and the 11th hour, our Congress our senators did allow some Indian legislation to pay off that was needed for the rest of Indian country. So even though our bill did not pay us, we were able to get some critical Indian legislation passed this past year. But we did have a lot of tribal support across the country for our loan be recognition efforts. Folks, we're going to talk more with Tammy Maynard and our other guests about the lumbees quest for federal recognition. But before we do that, we are going to have to take a short break and anybody with a question or comment today's show if you'd like to learn more about the battle of Hayes pond or if you've ever had any experience with the KKK, which I'd love to hear about it. One 809 9 6 two 8 four 8. This month and every month remember one in three Native American adults have high blood pressure. Check it at your nearest community health center. If the numbers are above one 20 over 80, talk to a healthcare professional. Native community well-being is very important. You can take action by visiting heart dot org slash HBP control. This support provided in partnership with HHS slash OM H and HRS a under cooperative agreement CPI MP 21 1227 and CPI MP 21 1228. You're listening to native America calling. I'm Sean spruce. Plenty of time still to get in an art discussion about the battle of Hayes pond, as well as the status of the lumbee tribe's efforts to gain federal recognition. You can join our conversation by calling one 809 9 6 two 8 four 8 one 809 9 6 two 8 four 8. That's also one 809 9 native. We're speaking with Tammy Maynard, director of government affairs for the lumbee tribe. And Tammy, with regard to the federal recognition, the bill moved through the house okay, but didn't get through the Senate. So tell us more. What's going on here? What are the roadblocks and what are the obstacles that you folks are facing there in the Senate and elsewhere that's preventing the recognition? It's eastern band of Cherokee Indians. They are the biggest obstacle that we have. They've done a really good job at spreading a lot of mistruths and misleading congressional staff and Congress through their marketing efforts that they have. They have a lot of money and they have the money to fight our recognition efforts. When we walk into a congressional office and they ask, oh, so there's 200,000 loan base. That's misinformation that's been put out. No, there are not 200,000 enrolled loan base. We have 65,000 enrolled tribal members of which around 35,000 are actively enrolled that means they have come in. They've updated their tribal card. They're eligible for tribal services. If they choose to apply. Those are the kinds of things that we are battling, they've put out that there is this large number of tribes that are against lumbee recognition, which is absolutely not true. So one of the things that this tribal chairman chairman John Lowry I think did well this past year owned in the realm of tribal diplomacy was seeking letters of support from tribes and he did that in an unprecedented manner in my opinion on our lumbee recognition, we saw a huge increase in tribal nations supporting our efforts that helped us beat back a lot of eastern bands broad planes against Columbia. Columbia also were able we were able to participate in conferences on a more national level over the past year, especially since COVID and the impacts of that such as NCA, chain or national American and housing council Reyes. These are important places where the tribe had was visible and our chairman wanted us to be visible and having opportunities to be in D.C. more alpha more frequently was good for us. So those are the kinds of things that are good, but we need to do more of it. And in order for us to do those things, it takes restricted revenue and funds and that's where eastern band has those really at a disadvantage because they do have the economic development and the money. To fight that we don't have. So we have to be really creative on how we do that. Okay. Now, we don't have anybody from the eastern band of cherokees on our show today, but to summarize what their contention is, I know that they will argue that the lumpy people do not have a language of their own. At one point, the lumbees were referred to as the cherokees of Robson county, and I know they take umbrage with that. They take issue with the identity of the lumbee people in regard to, in fact, even just the term lumbee doesn't go back that far. So Tammy, you know, when the eastern Cherokee, when they make comments like that and they even commissioned a study, even made somebody to do a study and their history of the lumbee to support their position. And what's your response to that when they say, well, you know, let me have a language. They don't have separate ceremony associated with the culture. And I think Tammy's gone and she had to hold on, but Lawrence, if you stole in line, Lawrence? Yes, sir. Okay, yeah, please, lord, I mean, just respond to what the arguments are with eastern Cherokee if you could. I think when you look at Indian identity in its courts about kinship and community and a lot of people meet one of the first questions we ask each other so as your people. And that's a tribal