But the reader comes that conclusion on his loan. And so when you're Road both things, voter lagoon to Japan to protest the slaughter. Uh, Would you as your it through the writing process, which kind of feel this rage boiling up in kind of trade attempt that down? Like how would you deal with that? That effort? Yeah, I that touches a very dark place in the Solomon Islands, where I also went, which I would almost save is worse than Taiji Same thing. But again, it You're the mayor to tell a story Not to wag my finger and bark at people that they should think a certain way. So yeah, I I had a lot of issues with my own mood while I was ready voices in the ocean. It was a much different book to right, and it was more personal, more emotional. Um, it it came on after my father died in I was grappling with feelings of grief as well. So there was There was a lot of stuff I had to work through. People do think the book is God. It's tough moments in it. Whereas for me, if I was to write it now today, Um. I I probably would try to balance it out a little bit more, but some of the magic can wonder there's plenty of that in there that. I do think the book It has has some pretty dark moments. Yeah, I is one of the things I'm always curious about untucked us writers about. I think that it's overlooked. It's pretty obvious with something like being a war correspondent, you witness all that trauma, even if you're not intimately involved with it here, it's natural that you would You'd suspect that some of those people are going to suffer from some kind of PTSD. As a result. How did you find like witnessing something like you saw in the Solomon Islands that just hit you? So viscerally as a reporter dealing with that emotion, You know, being out in the field or is an interesting metaphor to bring up because I think that what I'm looking at now in trying to figure out how to deal with is the longest war all and that's our war on nature. Uh, and there is not going to be a future in which we fight this battle and win this because, you know, there is There are no winners in that war and especially not us. So. Uh, it it, it's a constant struggle to figure out how to do that in a way that isn't just this primal scream. You know, it's it is more of a a and I'm sure you deal with this will all kinds of stories. Yesterday, Twitter was screaming about something very were screaming about nuts that Now it's okay to bring elephant tro into the US. And I mean, what sort of monsters are we that? So this is I do grapple with this all the time. I think this is the big subject I'm I'm interested in at the moment. This is Game time. And if we don't stop it with this week, We have no future hopeful. Sometimes I have little glimmers of hope In other times, I not at all, but I don't really want to write from that place of complete hopelessness. On the other hand, you know, I don't have kids. I think anybody who has kids' right now should be feeling pretty panic. The three books Obviously, we will do with the oceans and and have some kind of a conservation Bente them at their heart, and I know that you've I saw that you'd have started leaving some Ocean Adventures of this earth missions. How did that come about? Um, well I people have always wanted to see the places I've written about M A again approach lot from people saying, for example, after the devil's cheat, everybody wanted to see a great white shark. I knew that there is a place in Mexico called Guadeloupe island. It's kind of a hellish boat ride, You know, you're is like a day and a half boat ride in its 150 miles out the middle of Pacific. But when you get there, you can cage diving really clear water And you can pretty much are guaranteed of seeing a shark because unlike the fair lawns, that places is not There's no The Chum. Um, they don't over Chum It's protected to a certain extent. You can chime in the sharks have gone to the point where than the here the boat anchors going down. They come to the boats, You're going to see a white shark as you go out to Guadeloupe island. Whereas the fair lawns, they still do some catch driving. But it you're almost guaranteed not to see a shark because the visibility is so it's dark It's filled with Krill it's fifty degrees. It pretty much any good picture you've seen of. White, shark has been taken either at Guadeloupe or if it's below the water, It's a Guadeloupe pave jumping out of the water. It's of Africa. Um, it's a lot harder the Farallones uh, to to get those sort of glory shots. Um, but so I, I turn it a boat in invited twenty of my friends to come out to Guadeloupe and we had this great time thymine. I had lately been thinking about how I could give back more to the ocean, wanting to do some fund raising for some of the groups that I feel are doing very important work. Environmentally like the National read Resources, Defense Council, mission, blue, and Surf Rider. So creating an experience, This is a trial run that we're going to do this year where we just bring the pages of the books to life. So the first one will be in Hawaii and we're going to be doing all kinds of Oceane Aventures We're going to have dolphin day Whale Day a dig waved a shark day. We're going to get in the water with all of them. And, um, the characters are gonna stop by an We'll have conversations and it's a small group that will go in the, the proceeds from that triple-B donated back to, uh, these ocean conservation groups Unser how many of these trips you're going to do. We'll have to see our this when goes, I really would like to do this because they think it's an interesting way to make the experience of reading the book come to life. And I think it could be a good way to benefit these groups who, who I think are really under siege rate now from a lot of different directions. I mean, there I don't know, there's not a day that comes up right now where there is not some sort of lawsuit or some sort of a outraged that's perpetrated by the Trump administration on the environment. So they need our help in. So I would like to do more in I would like to do some shorter trips that people could do, um, across different price points in a maybe we can do a boat trip out to the Farallones. Have reading, have a talk. You know, have a nice Sunset cocktail on, come back and so Or are you working on other Book now on? I am. It's a really ambitious book that is so far proving to be a lot to chew on. Can't really go for. Other than that at the moment because I'm really superstitious, but yeah. It has to do with what I was mentioning about our relationship to the natural world. Messed up It is I know not surprised anymore. This point. Israel and it was so great to talk to you. It takes Chris likewise. But Susan Casey, talking with Chris cars. This piece was produced by Robbie Carver myself is brought to you by Arizona, Home of the king into shale troves October registration opens in a couple of weeks. Good a visit Arizona dot com for more. Thanks to everybody who has been reaching out about our survival series all tweets and emails. An awesome podcast was actually mentioned in a fair number of best of 2017 Lewis. So to all our new listeners Bacha. Lee back in two weeks with a piece from a writer who spent this winter in cold weather combat techniques from the Finnish special forces they use them to successfully hold off Russia World War Two. And recently they've been updating their skills for war in the twenty-first century. You won't want to miss it.