Lisa, Chuck Rosenberg, Brookings Institution discussed on The Lawfare Podcast


And so the oath doesn't shape the behavior of somebody who is inclined to violate it, it reinforces the notions that many of us bring to that arena and because we take publicly and because we care lot about what the community. I don't just mean our colleagues, but the defense bar in the court. Right. And, and you know, and and others with whom we work because we care deeply about our reputations in that professional environment. We tend to abide it. I don't think the oath will ever take a lawbreaker and make them into a law biter. Right. So one of the paradoxes of the oath is that you wouldn't and shouldn't trust in a position that requires the oath anybody for whom you would actually rely on. They're open as opposed to their character to deliver the result. It is not in and of itself, sufficient, and I am Agean when I read your book that you will probably make arguments along that line. I wanna ask you a question that you've been asking your guests, which is or variant of it, which is tell me about the time that in your professional life. You kind of look back and said, okay, here's what the situation, I arguably calls on me to do, but I swore this oath and therefore you know, not that yet again, I don't know that it was ever quite that stark. I don't know that I ever had to go into my office shut the door. Pull out a copy of the oath and re read it to remind myself of what my obligation was again. I think the people drawn to that type of work as not just lawn force, but again, to be clear and many walks of life and many pub. Capacity's, it is simply the starting point for career of service to abide by the rules, and the norms and the ethos of the place that you inhabit. I don't think I ever said to myself, what would my oath require? I may have said to myself, what does the law require? What would my colleagues expect what's the right thing to do here? But that's all in, in the end then grounded in the oath, I took. So what are the plans for the podcast in the future? Is it a discrete series that's going to end when it ends or you planning to continue it? So MSNBC NBC very gracious. Gave me a full season of ten episodes. We are close to finishing all ten after that we will see I think so far, so good. But I don't want to suppose I know what they want me to do next. And you know, this is true. I'm like. Incredibly grateful that they trusted me with this, even if it turns out to be nothing more than one season. Ten episodes thought that was pretty cool. And also lets me talk to people as we said at the beginning of this podcast. I really like the night trust that I admire and talk to them, about stuff outside of the daily news cycle often the stuff that makes them interesting in the daily news cycle. That's right. I'm in, I think Jim comb is a really interesting guy, I think Andy McCabe talks eloquently about his first office assignment as a special agent in New York, I think, Preet is incredibly eloquent when he talks about difficult cases in the southern district of New York, and how they debated them internally and how in the end they had a make decision. Go one way or the other Lisa, Monaco, has one of the most interesting careers in federal government. She worked in all three branches and all of that helped inform her judgment when. She ended up as President Barack Obama's homeland security advisor. They are frankly, interesting people, and it's a privilege to get to talk to them. It's privileged to talk to you, Chuck. Thanks so much for coming in. And thanks for doing this Ben. I appreciate it. It's a law firm, a really cool thing that you got going. And I am an avid reader and listener, appreciate it. Low-fare podcast is produced in cooperation with the Brookings Institution. Thanks this week to Chuck Rosenberg for coming on the show. If you have a second, please share the law, fair podcast on social media, and give a rating and five star review wherever you found us. The podcast is produced edited by gen potty howl, and our music is performed by Sophea Yan, and as always, thanks for listening..

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