Was a, as you say, 59, he could so easily have been world champion that year. And it was only, I think he was his only his sense of perspective. That stopped him becoming world champion. You know, the fact that he wanted to survive. You know, that's as simple as that without that example of Sebring, the car was pretty much undamaged and he could have carried on, but he had vowed to himself. That he wouldn't take any risks and who can blame him. Yeah, it's interesting you sort of think that phrase on his day because you could probably apply that to a lot of the list and that's potentially why they're here. It's not on his day on their bad days, too, that they, that's why we become champion. But very much, I think he's almost at the top of that on his day best driverless, 'cause yeah, the race is when he was on his down on the master incredible. And like you say, yeah, picking his moments being in an era of the mortality rate and everything that was sort of the danger involved. Yeah, picking his moments and not going and going, and that probably will ultimately cost you taking the risk, taking the reward of a world championship. It's hard to over 70 plus years. It's hard to compare different eras sometimes, but Hayden, before we came into record when these two enjoy their pub lunch, funnily enough. That's one of the things where Kev, because you've read so extensively on historic. Parts of Grand Prix racing. It's really hard to argue with the older stuff. It's very hard to argue with your call on this one, like, are they the wrong way around? Well, you just got that depth of knowledge. This is your passion. What you like to do. I think I've said before, I take the lists very seriously when I'm putting together, but then hopefully it's more fun when we actually discuss it, but that's also why we get people like the marshal or Damien Smith because they've got, you know, they've got that knowledge as well. I think we can mention that dame I was Ed for motor sport magazine for a decade. So I'd suggest that I'm not the only one with a lot of a lot of knowledge in the room. But yeah, I mean, just on the Gonzales Brooks point as well, I think they were both mega number twos, Gonzales to Alberto escar in Brooks to Sterling mos but I would say when they then had their time as lead driver, if you like, I think Brooks was more convincing. He really led the Ferrari line. Gonzalez, again, has Hayden said he had his moments, but in 1954 he finished a long way behind fans during the points. It wasn't really a championship fight, Fangio had it done. Now, Gonzalez did have fairly rubbish Ferraris to be fair, Brooks probably had a better car. But I think Brooks edges ahead. The moss has always, he was always very adamant that Tony was the guy that he respected the most alongside Fangio. And moss wasn't one to blow smoke, was he would say he would call it as it was that he had immense respect for him racing alongside him. And the interesting thing, I was very lucky to have met Tony a number of times. And he was the gentleman that you always put forward to be. He was a lovely man. But he knew how good he was. And there was a certain race and dryer arrogance underneath that gentleman front. He knew that he was one of the best of the era. The other thing worth matching actually on the moss point is that in those days moss had to call on engine and chassis. So Brooks was going well, wherever they go, I want, I want Tony's engine in my chassis. And Tony would never complain about that. No, because he'd signed up as a number two. But actually, when you look at how close they were on pace on some occasions and you think, well that's with Sterling getting everything he wanted, and Brooks just going, well, our mate. He said that he, I think he actually said one, so there was no point in me working that whole and getting the car set up and whatever because there's a good chance that it'd be nixed anyway. So I just had to make do with whatever I had, so that puts his achievements into even more perspective, I think. That's interesting. And then I was going to ask about when you've had the chance to meet these drivers because some of you can and some you either never met or you couldn't met because it was dangerous era of Formula One. So then you are left to go back to the history books to your personal reading to your personal knowledge to try and fit these drivers into the more contemporary lists as well. But I guess when you've had a chance to, like you say with Tony, have some sit downs. It makes it a little bit easier because you can pick, you can ask them questions and things. Yeah, exactly. He was also very engaged in the modern sport. He was really interested to know what was going on. In the current affairs and who was doing what Hamilton or Alonso, whoever it was at the time who was the story, he was a real enthusiast, and that never left him. But there was always a sense that he knew he knew deep down. How good he was and how capable he was. But he had this attitude. It was also religious. And that was part of it about he believed life was sacred. And therefore, his life he couldn't just toss it away. And he had a family to think about, and he was, you know, he was a well rounded man. And he was I was a pleasure to meet him. It's a difficult position to be in in 1919 50s race into our, isn't it? Yeah. Nowadays, perhaps not so much, but in the 50s, yeah, there was a reasonable chance you'd be. I think all drivers of that ear drive probably with most of them, the ones that hang around, drove with the margin. I think that explains the fan Joe. I've never drove like I did in 57 German Grand Prix I never will again because that was the I am going to hang it out in the way they always do now. And I'm not saying that one was better than the other. It's just different. It's a different world. But I think comparatively, you can compare them in terms of that year, Tony could should have been world champion, and it didn't work out for these reasons. And you can compare that to Felipe Massa, for example, in terms of it was out of his hands. He had the machinery. Whatever reason didn't happen. Let's move on. Who's next? So number 6 is Jacky ickx. Yes. 96 6 79, 116 starts 8 wins 13 poles.