FBI, Thomas J Baker, Billy Cunningham discussed on Rollye James


Billy Cunningham, the great American Thomas J baker, has some 33 years experience as an FBI agent of great note, did great work with the FBI for 33 years, which is a long, long time. He like many others have been concerned about the direction of the FBI recently by in this case, he wrote the book the fall of the FBI. How a once great agency became a threat to democracy and it's going to be out and about a week or ten days and good to have Thomas J baker with me and Thomas J baker. Welcome to the Bill Cunningham show and Tom is can you describe the culture of the FBI some 35 years ago when you got involved and then I'm going to ask you how is it different today? But what was the old FBI like? Well, Bill, I'm glad to be with you this morning and thank you for this opportunity. The FBI traditionally had its roots in law enforcement. It was culturally enforcement organization. And that's key in a law enforcement organization consciously or unconsciously all the people certainly the agents or the officers look forward to the day when they're going to be in court and they'll have to raise their right hand and swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That's the essence of the law enforcement culture. It's really rooted in this country and our constitution. That is contrasted with an intelligence agency that deals frankly in deception, deceit, we would call them lies, their product is intelligence estimates, which are best guesses. And of course, best guesses are an allowed in court. When Robert Mueller became director, we didn't realize that at first, but what he was doing, and he said he was doing it. He was changing the culture of the FBI and he was making it into an intelligence agency and there have been bad unintended consequences as a result. In fact, looking down the road, I look at your history and what you've done in the days following the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., you helped defend Jacksonville's capital from Florida's capital from a klansman demonstration. You're the first agent on the scene of the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan and goes on and on and on. And there's many whistleblowers. I'll tell you something sad came up recently, Tom, and that is that I'm watching a few days ago, the director of the FBI currently Christopher wray, director of the FBI. I mean, he walks in the shoes of J. Edgar Hoover, all the great directors, Louis free the FBI. And he was asking question from one or two senators Tom cotton and others about can you tell us sitting there now, this afternoon. It was dramatic moment I thought that can you tell us that no FBI agents acting undercover as part of the oath keepers? Went into the capitol and committed criminal acts inside the capitol wearing Trump paraphernalia. Now the easy answer to that question is I can assure you that my FBI agents were not inside the capitol on January the 6th, wearing Trump paraphernalia committing any offenses. I don't know if you saw that particular exchange. But assuming it's accurate and I assure you it is, that what does it say about the current culture of the FBI when they're participating unwittingly in efforts like to overturn or commit insurrection against America and the drug to the FBI can not say that our men and women did not do that. Does not speak volumes about the status of the FBI today. Well, it's in this inexplicable. That's his most recent appearance before a Senate committee. A month or so ago, he cut an appearance short when senator grass, we wanted to get into it with him about the whistleblowers and he left and it turns out he left on a weekend family vacation. It is an inexplicable. It really is inexplicable and I can't explain that kind of behavior whatsoever. I tell you another issue, 2016. Did the FBI interfere in the 2016 election more than the Russians interfered in it because of what they, the Steele dossier, the fact the FBI offered a $1 million for confirmation of the Steele dossier. And the fact that FBI agents supplied false information to the Department of Justice to get the fisa affidavit in the warrant, the FBI interfere in Trump's presidential campaign in your opinion. Well, yes. And that's the third part of my book. My book is, you know, one of the subtitles is the good, the bad and the ugly. And that certainly the ugly and that most of that oral hell, a lot of that has come out now. And rate his explanation for that is that while the miscreants who are responsible for that are all gone and he's talking about, of course, Comey himself, as well as the fellow struck and mccabe, the deputy director, that was profoundly disgraceful, an investigation of a presidential campaign was undertaken. We now know with no predicate information to justify it. It was just outrageous and so out of the norm. I mean in years past and I can remember I actually was sitting in one or two of these conversations and judge William Webb's office when he was director of the FBI and the Washington field office would come over and they had some information about a U.S. congressman or a U.S. senator, often of a straight up criminal nature bribery or something like that. And he would question them closely. Do you have enough and sometimes he'd send them back, you need more before you get in the business of and he used the term interfering with the government process. That's how it should be. You have to be very firm when you're going to investigate elected officials or people who are running for office interfering in the democratic constitutional process. And that 2016 election, as you probably know, and it's all documented now. The investigation was initiated on a relief July 31st in an electronic communication by struck deputy assistant direct destruct. Based on nothing, it was based on allegedly a conversation that a fellow in London, papadopoulos, who was associated with the Trump campaign, made a comment over a drink to someone that the Russians have a lot of dirt on Hillary. You don't open an investigation based on that. Let me assure you having lived in and out of Washington for dozens of years, it's not hard to believe before any election you could stand at any bar in any hotel. And here dozens of rumors, much worse than that. That's not predicate information to start an investigation much less the investigation of a presidential campaign. It was totally off the reservation. Thomas J baker, 33 years special agent new book is a follow the FBI how a once great agency became a threat to democracy. It even gets worse. In 2016, the FBI began an investigation of a presidential candidate, then the transition team, and then the president himself, Donald J Trump, without a predicate. In fact, the false information they gave to the fisa court as a result of the lawyers being suspended from the practice of law. Jump ahead a few years and December of 2019, the FBI Christopher wray received the so called laptop from hell of Hunter Biden. And I've watched Tony Bobbie and others talk about the fact that Joe Biden, now the president participated to the tune of millions of dollars

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