Percy Lang, Kevin, Microsoft discussed on Behind The Tech with Kevin Scott


Of like Chopin's Jim Honor Ballot And like they're they're people who can play it in like I'm like. Oh this is very nice and like I can appreciate this and there are some people who can play it And it like every time I listened to it one hundred percent of the time I get goosebumps on my spine like like provokes of very intense emotional reaction and I just wonder whether part of that is. Because I know that there's this person on the other end in there and some sort of emotional state playing at that resonates with mine and whether or not I like. You'll ever have a computer able to do that. Yeah that's I mean this gets kind of philosophical question at some point. No it was a human or computer than what kind of what a have. Yeah and I actually had a philosophy. Professor in Undergrad who Like ask the question like would would it make you any less appreciative of Chopin composition? Knowing that he was being insincere posing as like he was. You know doing it for some reason. I was like yeah. I don't know like it's a well one of my piano piano teachers Used to say that you kind of have I. It's kind of like a theater. You have to convey your emotions but there has to be some even when you go wild to has to be some element of control on the back because You need to kind of continue the thread and Yeah for sure but but also It is For me also just Vaca Plan as the pleasure of it's not just Having a recording. That's That sounds good. Yeah no I'm very jealous That you had the discipline and did all the work to like. Put this power into your finger. It's awesome well. Thank you so much for For taking the time to be with us today. This was a fantastic conversation and I feel like I've learned a lot. Yes thanks for having me my pleasure. It's awesome so that was Kevin's chat with Percy Lang from Stanford University and Kevin. You know what was really interesting was hearing both you and Percy reminisce about your experiences with hypercard and that was Percy's kind of introduction to computing programming. That was actually my introduction to programming to in your awesome. Yeah before I the web pages I was building hypercard things. And what kind of struck me as you were talking about. How to teach The next generation and talking about different tooling the idea of a or the concept of like a hypercard for AI. That's something that I think would be really really beneficial. What what are your thoughts? Well I think he was getting at that. A little bit When he was talking about his ideas around program synthesis ended the interview. So it's really interesting. I find this to be the case with a lot of people that the inspiration like the thing that I tugged you into computing and programming oftentimes sticks with you your entire career. And so he started his computing experience thinking about hypercard which is very natural easy way to express computations and still to this day like the thing that he's most excited about is how you can use these very sophisticated machine learning technologies to help. People expressed their needs for compute at a more natural way so that the computer can go help people out like I think that's so awesome. Yeah I do too. I thought the same thing when he was talking about the program. Synthesis that has some people I think. Understandably maybe freaked out right like idea that oh these things can right themselves but when you put it in that context of it might make things more accessible and less intimidating and more available across a variety of different things. I think it becomes really exciting. Yeah I've been saying this a lot lately. There's there's a way to look at a bunch of machine learning stuff and get really freaked out about it and then there's a way to look at machine learning where you're like. Oh my goodness piece of technology is creating a bunch of abundance that didn't exist before or it's creating Opportunity and access that people didn't have before to more actively participating in the creation of technology and that's the thing that really excites me about the the state of machine learning and twenty twenty. I agree I think that there is massive potential for that and kind of pivoting from that one of the things. The two of you talked about towards the end of your conversation was I guess the relationship between academia and industry when it comes to AM L. And you were talking about near the tremendous amount of computers often needed for these different projects and for these different research. Things being someone who's been on both sides like you have. What do you see as the opportunity for academia and Industry to work together? And what do you think are the? What's maybe one of the areas where there's friction right now? Yeah I think that Percy nailed it in his assessment so there's certainly an opportunity for industry to help academia out more with just compute resources although I think these compete resource constraints in a sense aren't the worst thing in the world like the the the brutal reality is that Even though it may seem that industry has an abundance of compute relative to a university research lab if you are inside of a big company doing these things the appetite for compute for these big machine learning projects is so vast that you have scarcity even inside of big companies and so I think that's a very interesting Like constraint for both academia industry to lean all the way into and to try to figure out cleverer ways for solving these problems. And I'm super excited about that but like the the point that he made Which I found particularly interesting is the fact that if we could do a little bit better job sharing our problems with one another. We could probably unlock a ton of creativity that we're not able to bring to bear solving these problems right now. And that's something that one of the reasons. I love doing these podcasts. So I'M GONNA go back and do my job as CTO of Microsoft. And see if I can try to make that happen more. I love it. I appreciate you doing that and I appreciate. Percy's work as well. That's just about it for us today but before we end I just have to say Kevin. I have been excitedly anticipating the release of your book which will be out on April seventh. It's called reprogramming the American dream and I've actually had a a tiny sneak peek. And it's really really well written. It's really good thank you. You are too kind. I am I'm looking forward to being out as well. I got a box of books in the mail. The other day This is the first book that I've ever written so I was like I had this pinch me moment When I opened this box and there were the stack of hardcover books that had the words printed in them that I written so. That's sort of amazing. That's so cool. I love that so much and I'm definitely going to be recommending it to my friends and my fellow tech nerds out there Because what I really like about the book is that it really does break down a lot of the things we've been talking about in this conversation. Like Hey I. In an understandable way in a way that is pragmatic and not scary. Yeah that was a goal. I was hoping to take a bunch of material that can be relatively complex in presented in a way that hopefully it's accessible to a broad audience so I think it's actually critically important like one of the most important things is to have all of us have a better grounding of what it is and what it isn't so that we can make smart decisions about how we want to employ it and how we want to encourage other people to use these technologies on our behalf. I love it. I love it all right. Well that doesn't for us as always please reach out anytime at behind. The tech at Microsoft Dot Com. Tell us what's on your mind and sure as hell everyone you know about the show. Thanks for listening..

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