Amazon, Albertine Rift, Brazil discussed on C-SPAN Programming
The reality of the extensive extension. Is still to be determined in whatever or maybe never in human time scales. What do you do? So such a herring after the Serengeti areas were cities are encroaching and important landscapes. The Amazon No. We've already just foiled our North American. Region so fantastically and so it's hard for us to cite. You should do this, but You got. Let's talk about the Amazon. You get had some time on the ground in Brazil. We do have both an arrow to power down, which is changed. Some dynamics is just sort of like saying The Amazons. Not Bernie. As much as it did in 1990 days is not the end point. So what do we do now? What's the role of Trade policy. What's the role of remote sensing? What's the role of empowering the indigenous communities? Right? Yeah, well, I mean, I think the first thing I'm trying to do in both the Amazon and then, of course, the other place That's not a lot of time is the Albertine rift, which is where the mountain gorillas ours. Freebie Homo SAPIENs of evolves both a very special places in the book, and they run through the book. The first thing I'm just trying to do is to show that the degradation, the degradation of natural environments and the killing of species and the rest of extinction are not being carried out by evil people who hate nature. It's often being carried out by people that are desperately poor poor in ways that The young people who are alarmed by polar bears and plastic straws have no understanding of and you I know, understand it cause you go to those places, So the first thing I wanted to apply, this number is to bring My kids and kids. My daughter's age. 14 15 16 wonder, writing really simple stories, characters and show what their struggles are. And so you see in the Amazon chapter. I just object to this kind of elitist, literally looking down, flying over the Amazon condemning the people on the ground. What they're doing these air desperately poor people. I lived in communities of former slaves or I'm sorry. The Children of former slaves the grant of the descendants of former slaves in Brazil. Point out that, Yeah, I mean, there's there's certainly we would all like this all else being equal. We would like the Amazon forest to be intact. You know all those speed equal. I don't want any temperature change on Earth. We've adapted to this temperature but also is not equal. You know, there's still two billion really poor people. So that's the first thing the second thing I think it's so important. Had my my main character on the Amazon who now regrets having spoken to me because he spoke so freely, and I know you know him very well too. Damn, That's sad. He spoke so freely with me because he was upset as I was by the media coverage, saying it's the ones of the world He revealed. This important thing, which is that in demanding small is beautiful conservation measures. Greenpeace forced the fragmentation of parts of the Amazon forest that should never have occurred. So what we know is that if you want if you want to produce more food on less land, you need to concentrate agricultural production. You need to intensify it. Well, that should happen in the Savannah region, which is none of this had had, which is in this southern south of the Amazon forest. It's actually much more productive for agriculture. It's less file diverse, fewer college. Just think that it's the same as the Amazon for us that would then allow you to protect more of the Amazon. But Greenpeace insisted The farmers maintain half of their land in forest isn't creating these forest islands that make it more difficult for apex predators like the cats to move between them. I think that was a very, very important finding. Now, if I could skip if I go over to the Albertine rift in Africa might be some of the heroes of that chapter. We're also conservation scientists who have been working with oil companies. To develop oil safely in national parks, so that could be used as a substitute for would fuel would fuel is the worst fuel. It's the fuel that disrupts for us life. It Z Americans. We tend to pay attention to the millions of you who die from breathing toxic smoke, but the people that used to feel what they complained about the time it takes Of course, the impact on forest is devastating to have hundreds of thousands of people going through the forest, eating wild animals and using the wood Michael Shellenberger Subtitles whose book why environmental alarmism hurts us all. So in both cases, I do think I'm arguing for a moderate view. Which is to intensify our culture in the savannas of the Brazil and Tol allow some some extractive industry, particularly for petroleum in the Albertine rift so that people can be liberated from what his fuel Now I wrote the book, in part because if I just want to say on CNN or MSNBC, I think there should be oil drilling. In for a room. The National park I would be. I mean, I would be crucified for that. But once you read this book, I think it's very hard to read Chapter four, which is the chapter about species extinction and leave that chapter and think. That somehow that it's wrong. How could it be wrong? I mean, I knew that l the Americans and Europeans that are there flew there on jet planes and enjoy a petroleum. Howard lifestyle so and in the idea that petroleum drilling even in the Amazon, or that in these parks is worse than would fuel is also wrong would feel is just massively worse for the natural environment and getting some oil out of the ground. So I think in in in sort of making that moderate case that's what I'm arguing from are arguing that there is a way to balance development and conservation. But we do need to have some appreciation of the importance of moving up the energy ladder and of the importance of growing more food unless lancer concentrated agriculture Yeah, I did a lot of reporting on cooking fuel A couple of years ago when I was at Propublica, and it was there, the issue was antipathy. In a lot of European thunders to supporting projects without being natural gas. Propane LPG, which is a side project after gas production and The is levels of hypocrisy. Here's that are unbelievable, normally has a oil for development programs that they fund to help countries and my Ghana. What about their A levels more practically, and so they won't spend money. You helped bring LPG two communities. They're stuck burning wood, and I said, I'm with you on these levels of democracy. And double speak and clashing agendas. It's around us in many different dimensions. Let's go. I want to talk briefly about population. And growth. No, the white this 10 years ago, I wrote a piece of my daughter's blocked at the times, actually, 12 years ago, drawing on a demographer just if Sami's working on Jesse L. Suppose, work and It's just, he noted that the old model the population bomb is we both know who's total physical. But I called it a population.