"Is the pow that Donald Trump tests. I think what Donald Trump is testing. Now is that he's been able to get the Republicans in congress to do the things that they wanted to do, and perhaps he is well, the tax cut the deregulation, the supreme court appointments, but he's testing a power. That the public themselves in the end are the ones that are the big biggest check on the congress and on the courts and on the presidency and right now the approval rating of Donald Trump is is the lowest any president has been. And I think it's in part not because he hasn't accomplished many of the things that a lot of people feel are good. But because there has been a toxic culture created people feel anxious people feel the moorings are being undone that traditions norms are being violated and after a while the people will speak. I mean, they spoke pretty strongly in the midterm elections. I'm even though he kept the Senate which most people assumed he would given the structural balance. The Senate had he lost pretty big in the house. And and he hasn't accepted the loss really in some ways. Which is a problem. If he did he might say, how can I change now? So that I can reach out to the other side. And maybe he will maybe we'll get infrastructure. Maybe we'll get something for the dreamers. Maybe we'll get this criminal Justice reform. And I'm hoping that I'm hoping that that will will make the two sides come together in a better way. I wonder if if you don't reading the midterms wrong, I'm just going to make you flat-out challenge on that won't turn out was high. You could argue his reinvigorates is the electricity. We had happen to democratic stress just into lake on his show not long ago saying yes, Democrats took back the house. But if you look across the races, it doesn't look like the Trump machine is coming to a standstill in any way. Indeed. The take way might be Donald Trump is now definitely gonna go on all things behavioral and run again in twenty twenty rather than this being a great mid Tom's or you show, you're not trading too, much to woods wishful thinking possibly possibly. I might be. I mean, it's hard to predict anything when you know. I like everybody else never assumed that Hillary Clinton wasn't going to win. So it makes you much more vulnerable to making predictions. I think that the most important thing that happened in the midterms, and this has nothing to do with party necessarily is that the fact so many people came out. I mean young people voting five hundred percent more than in the previous midterms more. Women running for election from all sorts of parts of the lives that had never been in politics before. That's that's a really hopeful sign is that thanks to Donald Trump at possibly could be. I mean, I think the interest in politics has been increased because of Donald Trump, and that's a very good thing. Whether or not it produces him again or whether it produces somebody against him when the citizens get awakened. That's when things happen in the country. I mean when I look back at the times when change happened. It was the anti slavery movement that did it all Lincoln said not his leadership alone. It was the progressive movement in the cities and states long before FDR an and teddy Roosevelt became president that allowed that some of the regulations that could deal with the industrial revolution. And of course, it was the civil rights movement that allowed LBJ to do the civil rights Bill in the voting rights Bill. So we need a political revolution in our country. Something's not working well with the system. The congressional lines are being drawn gerrymandering this too much money in politics. There's a sense that as. Teddy Roosevelt said the rock of democracy will break when people in different regions and different parties and different races begin to feel themselves as the other. So somehow that's been happening long before trunk the polarization in the country people in the rural areas feeling cut off from the city's people who are working class people feeling that the elites haven't handled them. Well, they don't have the right educational system. They haven't had mobility those are deep cultural problems that he hasn't created that were there. And so the question the question will be will leader rise that can heal those divisions. And so far, he hasn't healed them. The question will be where does the country go and twenty twenty if such a leader arises, we don't know who that later will be I must ask you about impeachment who spectra of postal impeachment hanging over the presidency. Not least because you have a sort of strong personal echo. Here. Think is a young stone for you route two piece in the new Republic and Johnson entitled how to dump Lyndon Johnson. I understand it. Career impeaching president the autumn of put you off impeaching another will. Well, no what I meant by. That was that. I was hoping this was written in nineteen sixty seven when I became a White House fellow and I'd written an article for the new Republic with a friend of mine, and we were simply saying how to remove Lyndon Johnson. From office was to create a party that would run against him in nineteen sixty eight rather wishful thinking, it would be made up of women minorities poor people and. Opposable strategy fool the Democrats on the left. Do you recognize that I do indeed? But I think that in some ways I think it would be a big mistake for impeachment to start. I mean, the Democrats have to know that whatever Muller comes up with the Senate will not go along with the impeachment. And I think it's much better to just educate the people, let them feel and change their mind about him suppose Muller comes up with obstruction of Justice or even collusion. Then you just let the people absorb that information. It would be a big mistake for them to move in an impeachment direction. It'll just fire the base of Trump, and then he will be able to say this is a witch hunt. So that I think they should just keep their heads down. They should do their investigations, but they should try and get as much done as they can even if it contributes to the benefit of the Republicans to get some of these things pass it'll be good for the country. So that's changing your thinking of fifty years. I think you become a little bit more practical. But no, even then I was wanting them to re unelected him not necessarily impeach him. Fair point just a closing from you what kind of presidency regardless of who runs. Oh gets elected. But what cut presence, you do you think will result from Donald Trump having been in the White House while the question will be does the next president have to have that kind of celebrity entertainment value. So that he becomes a figure who's part of your lives. I mean in some ways if I thought about who could come back now that could most challenge President Trump. It would be teddy Roosevelt because he was a person who people would follow him when he was on stage as he was in center stage. I mean, they said about him. He wanted to be the baby at the baptism and the bride at the wedding and the corpse at the funeral. He hungered for that stage as Trump does. And there's something charismatic about that people are drawn to that. It's like a kid drawn to a circus. And the question will be doing need that person today in our social media entertainment world, or could it be Oprah presidency? That's. Wrecked. How you feel about it? Well, I think not only Oprah. But now, there's also it's a sports stars and movie stars think, oh, I can become president. If this person became president without political experience. I think it's a problem to get into public life without political experience, or at least leadership experience. I mean, I can see a big businessman whose really led hundreds of thousands of people in a company overseas coming in and having had the experience of building a team and all those human qualities, but to just pop in from some other field where you haven't been a leader. But you've simply been a celebrity. I think would be a problem if that's the lesson taken from this doors. Thank you very much. Joining us. Thank"