Charles Manson, Murder, Vincent Bugliosi discussed on Tim Conway Jr.
The program. Hi, George. Thanks for having me looking forward to this and I have to our compliment you on one of the most comprehensive books. On this subject, and probably any other I have ever read. Absolutely stunning. My God. And you. You kind of got into this in a strange way. 20 years ago, didn't you? Yeah, it was just a magazine assignment. It was only supposed to take me three months. And I guess you could say I fell down a rabbit hole, and it took Literally 20 years from the day of the assignment to the week that I turned in the final manuscript in March of 2019, and as I was reading your book, and I got it yesterday in assortments going through it as quickly as I can. You don't contend that the Manson family did not commit the murders. It's not one of those stories, but the motive, which is still up in the air, you throw out to some various possibilities, but more importantly, you really key in on the prosecutor at the time, Vincent Bugliosi. Yeah. Yeah, and again. That wasn't my original intention. But one site was really starting to dig into the story and look at the Available evidence and information and talk to people who had never talked before. I mean, working for my benefit was time so many years had passed. The people who Where witnesses or friends and family of both the victim's killers. Also the police prosecutors whatever hadn't talked mostly to the media. And I just the timing was right. I started in 1999 and a few people started talking, and then a few more. And I uncovered a lot of evidence that the prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi, who also wrote the best selling best only to crime Book of all Time held his skelter had actually fabricated evidence evidence hidden evidence. Withheld information from the defense. He was obligated to turn over and even suborn perjury. And some of the key witnesses, wasn't he so ticked off that you were writing this story in this book? Ah lot about him that he threatened to sue you. Yeah, quite a few times. And he wrote letters to my publisher of the first one was e Think, 30, some pages, single spaced 50 pages of attached documents and substantiation for his argument. You know, I thought that the publisher might be a little bit worried, but they were opening champagne there. They said it in the scent. Man doesn't write a letter like this. That's a good point. He died in 2015. Let's Tom for a lot of people who you might not have been around the 1969. Tell us a little bit about what we publicly have been told about these murders. Yeah, it's kind of a crazy story and and difficult to synopsis eyes but to do it quickly in 1967, Charles Manson It was a pretty much uneducated, illiterate, lifelong con artists to abandon in and out of jail and prison and his whole life was released to Los Angeles. He immediately violated his parole. And arrived in the Bay Area in March of 67 gravitated towards the Haight Ashbury district, and within a few months had kind of gathered a following of About TV, mostly young women who would do anything he told them to do follow him didn't speak unless they were spoken to. That group ended up migrating down to Los Angeles about a year later, and they wound up first Dennis well from the beach Boy Drummers house. Manson was also trying to pursue a music career and he was using connections that he threw Dennis and other musicians he met at Dennis's house, but Dennis eventually got set up with the lifestyle of, you know, 30 pretty unwashed. Drugged hippies in his house and threw them all out on. Then they wandered over to a place called the Spahn Ranch outside of Los Angeles and Chatsworth. And within about another year by the Bring summer of 69. This is the official version again. Manson. This started proper sizing this race war, which he called helter skelter that was going to occur. During which the African Americans all over the world would rise up against the white. And eventually wiped them all out. And during this kind of apple ick tick war, hey, would hide his group and a hole in the desert. He said he had discovered on then when the black Prevailed over the whites. He would emerge from the hole with his followers, and they would Enslave the black and then re populate the planet with masses perfect offspring. When the war the healthiest culture race war didn't begin when Manson had Predicted he decided that he would ignite it by ordering his followers to Mitic commit a horrible crime and make it look like Blacks had done it either black militants of black Panthers on thinking that that would cause the race war and that was what happened on August 8th 1969 When, uh Four followers went up to the statehouse in top of Benedict Canyon and slaughtered everybody, they talented and a pretty horrible way. What's so amazing about that to Thomas all these followers at the time? They really didn't have any criminal records, did they? Manson did? Of course. She had a horrible childhood. But take your seat and all the others. They they were pretty, You know, teenage runaways, girls and boys. Three, only one that had a record. That you know was involved. Prison time was Susan Atkins. It was about 18 or 19 at the time, and she was involved in a stolen choir pursuit across state lines. The rest of them, including all the ones that ended up killing for Manson. None of them had any any criminal history except for getting picked up for drug charges. That kind of thing possession. It's amazing that he had this kind of influence on these people to do the heinous crimes that they did. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's kind of the mystery of the whole story. I think that it's why people are still interested in all these years later, when you look at this little kind of unwashed hippie, and you know, he didn't call himself a hippie, he hated hippies. But he looked for all intents and purposes like a happy hey, had somehow learned how to gain control of these people to the point where he could actually get them to kill complete strangers on command just by telling them to do it and they wouldn't question They would do without hesitation, and they'd have no remorse after the fact Tex Watson, who's still in jail for life, he's you know, prison down there in San Diego. Didn't he Also kill some passer by who came by some some younger kid? Well, that's never been proven. Yeah, there's a couple suspected suspected murders that he or others in the family had committed but the only ones that the family was ever convicted for where the five people in the Tate House to La Bianca And then ranch hand named Donald Chase Shorty Shea. One. Now that Manson ever directly kill anybody that you know of Hey, participated in the murder of Shorty Shea, which occurred about a week or two weeks after the Tate LaBianca murders. He and about three other men in the family stabbed and beat Shorty to death. He wasn't it paid house the night night of the murders when they occurred, and at the La Bianca hey, went into the house tied up. The couple left. Them went out to the car where the rest of his followers were and told them to go in and Kill everybody and like they had the night before. We're going to take calls next hour with Tom O'Neil as we chat with him about his book Chaos, Charles Manson, the CIA and the secret History of the sixties were going to get into some of his theories..