Baseball at that time. I think one. The things i did did struggle with and realize those finding Good inaccurate documentation of negro league games and barnstorming gains at the time I found you know there was definitely a lot of advertising. You know come. Satchel page to kenosha wisconsin or whatever. Those are great But then you telling what happened in the game and opinions. They just weren't something that were covered in white newspapers. Mainstream newspapers in the early part of the nineteen hundreds. So i found myself using the pittsburgh courier and as a main resource which is an african american publication in pittsburgh You know historical you weekly newspaper And that was where i was able to find a lot of the accurate reporting Meagrely and black baseball and social issues. you know and everything like that so it was. It was very interesting to say. See the ballot and coverage. You know things that weren't covered by mainstream media that were covered these these african american publications and the reverse as well. Well was the importance of baseball to the african community. african american community. How was it looked upon. It was a huge part. You know as huge as as wait. america you know it just wasn't always publicized and and celebrate it that way nationwide within the african american community. Those games were huge. And i think one of the things that sometimes gets lost with You know white owners pushing back against integration. You know there were definitely had their racist reasons for doing so But also a business reasons you know when when they go out of major league teams on the road they were renting out their stadiums to the negro league teams and drawing out dry some of the major league teams in some instances so there was a tremendous amount of interest in the negro leagues. Without question. i mean it was enough to fill stadiums East west all star games. That they had were were drugs And you know they were covered by mainstream media as well so There's never a shortage of interest Had the barnstorming or to these african american teams can travel all over the country to any little town in america. People were coming out to see them black and white. You write about how. African americans have influenced baseball from the eighteen hundreds to the present. Give me a thumbnail description of how they've done that you know. I had a great conversation about that with pot cancer. Extra president of the eagerly dan. I flew out there and interviewed him and he said you know he put it great. He said you can go back in baseball history to any point in time and they're always african american stars. They're always black. Players for people can look up to you know whether they were black or white you know they just didn't have that opportunity to play in major league baseball. You know there were. The legend satchel teenage reached out. You know beyond just major league baseball. A bill josh gets and cool papa bell so they were always people to look up to just the point where they finally got into major league baseball and now they have a wider reach You know people were able to see them. Look up to them. And and i really do believe that that was a very Very big aspect of Of major league baseball players African american players as kids. Young black kids in the fifties and hank aaron and they wanted to be like You know and then it led to a boom in the seventies and eighties You know things like that. Kinda easier to perpetuate through the generations. You mentioned about cool papa bell and josh gibson and other names like that i don't know how much of it was Was fact it. How much is just a reputation that got out of out of bounds in sense. Tell me a little bit about the some of the great players and what they did actually accomplish. That's a good point too. And there's definitely a folklore. Do give negro league than barnstorming and the those players you mentioned. Cool papa and and satchel cage and just kids center mule suttles hidden you know. Five hundred. Eighty put homers but You know the documentations on the more structured leaks the negro national league there are stats We get major league. Baseball is gone to recognize These rarely stats as a major league. Which is great You know it's never going to be a complete picture Their records are incomplete There there are boxers that exists or are storybooks against But but you never really know you know. It was the league's were loosely. Organized time Barnstorming didn't necessarily count. So you know it is. It is kind of a. I'd say you know complete picture and that element of folklore that we just probably will never get a full full you know. How fast did satchel page pitch out. How far the judge gets fifties home runs over. Lying is these newspaper articles and stories that have been passed down. Tell me a little bit about. What was the toughest part in writing this book. That's a great question. And i i the toughest part for me was keeping in mind that You know it's too for two hundred and thirty facebook it's the size of the normal bobble But i would like yeah. There were definitely subjects. That i would loved to do a deeper dive into But couldn't do that. Because i'm trying to incorporate over one hundred and fifty years of baseball so you know tennis. The role of kennesaw mountain atlantis. In all of this. I think really deserves a very deep dive You know a and kind of on a bigger scale you know. I wanted to really kind of dive into where the tower was with integration and segregation Landis is the figurehead. He was the commissioner of baseball during the white periods. But there are a lot of questions about that. You know i think to me. The real power lied with the owners. landis you know while he you know he absolutely stood in the way of integration. You know there are some you know. He has positive relationships in other areas with african americans. he was business. Partners are here. They are very good close. If rube foster who founded the negro leagues each stood up as a judge for many You know on the right side of many rachel incidents so but then yet again you know seen as has the figure that kept baseball white for all those years you know and then there's the question You know landis died in nineteen forty four. You know there were team. That didn't integrate ten til ten fifteen years down the line after that. So what does he really the guy standing in the way. You know that. That's something. I would have loved to dive deeper into But just the restrictions on on doing a comprehensive time line. I think that was my biggest challenge. It's what to include whatnot to include. You know where to cut down. Rocco constantino is with us. We're talking about his book. It is an excellent read. We're gonna make it a selection of the month on the sports byline book corner checking out. It's called beyond baseball's color barrier the story of african americans and major league baseball past present and future we continue with more of you and sports byline..