Continuing very important conversation about religious trauma and recovery for those who escaped high control religions and did some real damage to them. We're going to take more of your phone calls in just a second. I let me dive into something else. It's been on my mind now. It's interesting dr analysis I've been doing some research on my own for another project. And i was getting into the efficacy of prayers and you know many people come together and i understand the attraction of prayer. You're calling out. You need assurance there may be a calming meditative effect with prayer but there was a study that was done with cardiac patients who were prayed for than some were made aware that they were being prayed for and some didn't know for sure and and they had all these different people sort of segmented out and it was interesting because the people who were being prayed for the cardiac patients and they knew about it actually had more complications. Statistically in it's the researchers were wondering if perhaps they felt a sense of pressure like oh. I'm being prayed for it. I have to get better like they're relying on me. And if i don't get better maybe i failed in my faith and that's an element of prayer quote unquote answered prayer. That we don't talk about a lot but have you navigated that people talk about prayer like it's always a net positive but that's not always the case. Now get you. I mean there are a lot of studies on africa stiff prayer and usually they come out fifty fifty. They don't it. It makes no difference with the treatment group and the control group. Come out about the same. do you get into meditation. I mean i'm. I'm not a buddhist but there's a lot about sort of that. Mindfulness thing centering yourself. The breathing the calming as a someone who gets into you know the science of the brain. Is there merit to meditation alley. Yeah yeah all the things that you can learn from. That are really valuable like i say. I'm not a buddhist. But there's a lot about the buddhist religion that i i kinda dig like the non-magical parts focusing on yourself and you know trying to prioritize your life and don't sweat the small stuff and that's probably something those philosophies that exists outside of buddhism but i always sort of come back to them. I've got kevin kevin. Thanks for waiting on me. Do you have something. Dr when wynalda dang well seven and dr one l. I i wanna thank of you for providing a semblance of community that you spoke to and sorry for the road noise. I actually live on the road. Full-time in van. And i came into being an atheist in the last year and a half and really just more of a comment about what set set about giving yourself permission. In other words. I came to a place i accidentally stumbled onto a video on youtube with hitchens and My goodness water revelation. That was and then You know. I ended up going down that road of giving myself permission to think for myself. And in dr nell touched on Study in history and that was also something that really opened me up to new ideas and new ways of thinking and i just really I'm grateful to you guys. And i also was quite intrigued. The last caller i believe is name was. Nick was a and so am i. And it's been quite a journey there as well so i just wanted to thank you. Well thank you and safe travels and your greatly appreciate. I'll see you next time all right interesting. That religions have all these protective mechanisms. You know you spoke about the fact that don't trust your own mind remember. There's a verse in the bible. That says god uses the foolish things to confound the wise the the lord works in mysterious ways. It's really a convenient mechanism. Because they say it makes perfect sense until it doesn't make sense and then if it doesn't make sense. Well that's just god using the foolish things to confound the wise and you don't trust your brain and we have to lean on faith. I mean it's really a a brilliant to insulate yourself from challenged criticism. Emily thank you so much for calling. You're on with dr. Marlene went l. What do you have forest today. My friend i will be starting. I decided to start therapy. I'd completely came to atheism in two thousand nineteen and then the pandemic you know. I'm just not being able to get into therapy. And i am quite sure that their best. I'll be working with. Does not specialize in kind of leaving the control environments and so my question is how do i build a good therapy goal. That will be effective. I've i've since i've lost that christ soldier mentality. You know everything you do you do for christ. I wanted to work with someone to learn how to build that motivation for gold again. How do you build the motivation or have you clarify what your goals are. How do you clarify what the goals are with someone who may not have the understanding of what actually goes on with fundamentalism. In how everything is focused on christ and and you do everything for that. First of all you might have to educate your therapists. A little bit. And make sure that he or she understands. What a huge transition. This is because often they don't they don't get it. They think it's like giving up on santa claus and they want to just move on or it's like an immature view of the world. And you're just going to grow out of it. There are some really naive attitudes towards this. I'm in therapy world. And i mean that's what we're trying to change trying to help people understand. No this is complete revolution. You're leaving world for another so there's a lot going on. How much pain is involved varies but still it's a huge transition and maybe bigger than all the rest so make sure your your therapist understand that. And if they don't point them to some resources most therapists are willing to do a little homework. They can read my books. They can read the articles on my website that on artists destroyed a syndrome and understand that a lot of people have done and then basically what. You're you're needing to do is re formulate what your life is about. What you want in What kind of person you wanna be without the religion. What kind of a life you want. What your values are and do a lot of that kind of values clarification. So do you know what direction you're going in. some of. It might be remedial in areas..