In our third series of our top ten lists these special podcasts we're making for our third series, which let's be Frank is a labor of love for our chief editor, Kevin Turner, our first guest back on the podcast. Welcome. Welcome, welcome. Thanks very much. Yeah, looking forward to this. What's the topic this week? This week, it is the top ten F one drivers not to win the world championship. Not to win a world champion. Some good drivers to get through. So I think there have been 34 world champions. But I wouldn't say that lay the top 34 greatest F one drivers. So I think there's some overlap between the back end of that list and the top end of this list. Let's get the opinion of our other two guests. Welcome back to the podcast. Motor sport journalist Damien Smith, good to have you back. Thank you nice to be back. Thank you. You two have just had a lovely pub lunch. Out of ten, how would you rate that one? I would say an 8 or 9, I think. This guy's going to go for 8. That's a high rating. With another former colleague who you like collecting former colleagues. I'm just hoping to hang around for long enough so that I guess everyone becomes a former colleague and I'm still here in a little shed. I'm not envious at all after my Tesco meal deal. Although I forgot my club card, so I paid full price for it. Well, the extra 50 P. Somebody say something witty now. And our third guest on the podcast and I also support a dot com's editor, Hayden Cobb. Welcome to Kev's top ten podcast. This is the first one you've done or not. Thank you. Yeah, that's right. My debut. Expectations. The previous two series have never dragged you in. No, unfortunately not, but there you go, so I hoped I confess, do you want to know about my lunch or is it going to do good? I know I went quite Polish when it too. Oh, come on. It was very nice. What's wrong with you, people? The most posh one, then. One of the most posh. We had sort of a burger and chips. Yeah, but three pound 90, not three pound 40. Because I left McKee ring in the car, so I was going to go back and get it for that 50 P so anything. But it's ten minutes away. This right, I'm going to go back to the top now. Let's see what my lunch is a care bought it. So did he? Yeah, he did. He's a generous man. In fact, he invited you in on the premise of having lunch, and then we roped you into podcasts. That may have been the case. That's exactly what happened. Good payment scheme, I think. It is good. Right, let's get into our top ten. F one drivers never to win a world championship. Kev kick us off. Who's at ten? What are the stats? So number ten Felipe Massa, 2002 and 2004 to 17 269 starts 11 win 16 poles. Best results second in 2008, of course. So bear with me, I know that Massa obviously hung around a bit too long. He got absolutely pasted by all of his teammates really after he had the unfortunate incident at Hungary. But actually, if you look at what he did, I'd say 2007 to that first part of 2009 really Megan, in particular, 2008. He came within what, ten, 15 seconds of being world champion. He's probably closer to winning the world championship than anyone else on this list because of that. And remember he wasn't very good in the wet and that was a wet dies in front of his home crowd, massive pressure of the championship, and he did, I think it was absolutely fantastic performance. Surely the race of his life and it was just what was going on behind the end meant they lost the championship by a point and he really was stunning that season. He beat Raikkonen 6 two on win 6 two on poles. His teammate world champion teammate. And let's not forget there were points that he lost through no thought of his own obviously was mega in Hungary, had the engine blow up. The lost in that one, there's the whole other podcast, Singapore, 2008, which, you know, he was, he was on course for a good result there. So as much as obviously history goes well, of course there's Hamilton, you know, another world championship, but actually that particular year, masa was fantastic, and I think that's what edges him onto this for me. He's a good example of a very respectable, decent Grand Prix driver who had one real shot at the world title and actually stepped up and actually took his opportunity. He wasn't his fault that he didn't work out, as you say. So I've got a lot of respect for him. For that. But yeah, he's just, he would have been odd to think of him as a world champion now. I don't know how would you be perceived as a world champion, had it gone his way that day? Well, you described as a sliding doors moment on the previous podcast because who knows how that changes the trajectory of a career that's true when you become world champion and you know you get that extra aura around you. Yeah, and I think for our younger listeners to this include myself in that is all right. Who's the youngest person in the room? No, I only mentioned that because when we get into the rest of this list, this is probably the most recent one. And even then I think for some people's memories, as you've just alluded to there, the sort of second half of mass's career is probably what maybe what people will remember.