Portland, President Trump, Michael Chertoff discussed on Forum

KQED Radio
| KQED Radio


Was a scene in Portland, Oregon last night as clashes continue to escalate between protesters and federal forces sent in by the Trump Administration of Protect Federal Property. Federal agents have been criticised for using excessive force against civilians and early this morning. Agents tear gas. Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler as he was speaking to protesters. The heightened unrest there comes Justus President Trump announced that he's sending hundreds of federal law enforcement officers to Chicago and Albuquerque, Tio. Drive down. Violent crime is part of the anti crime initiative Operation Legend in the segment. We'll talk about the latest developments in Portland and explore when it's lawful for federal forces to police cities. Joining us is Josh Campbell, law enforcement of National Security correspondent for CNN. He's also the author of Crossfire Hurricane Inside Donald Trump's War on the FBI. And he's in Portland now and Josh, Welcome to the program. Thanks. Good morning to you too great to be with you Glad to have you and I know your voice is a little bit Shall we say, compromised by tear gas, and I hope that it will hold out here with us. We also Michael Chertoff back with us on form executive chairman and co founder of the Chertoff group. Former Secretary of Homeland Security under President George W. Bush. She's the author of Exploding Data, Reclaiming Our Cyber Security in the Digital Age. And Michael Chertoff. Good to have you It's good to be on Let me actually begin with you, Michael Chertoff, and let's begin just by talking about the fact that this has been going on for over 50 nights and days. In Portland. Now the mayor has been tear gassed, so it's getting a lot of attention, obviously, and what we're talking about here is federal agents without local support, which many have said exacerbates and escalates the situation. Unmasked. Ah sees me unmarked vans and the generic police patches simply detaining people. Some are saying these air like kidnaps allegations of arrest with no probable cause and people taken away in on mark cars use of excessive force. I just want to get right to the heart of it with you. How lawful is this? And, well, you know, the government federal government does have the authority to protect federal govt and part of mission of the federal Protective Services to do that, But I got to be related to protecting federal property. It's not relations to roam around the streets. And apprehend people or detain them simply because they might have done something. Additionally, if you're going to deal with the issue of demonstrators excusing crowd control, you have to train you how to do that, and I think we need additional personnel have been deployed. Not including people who come from the border and Operation environment border are not really trained to deal with several demonstrations that have First Amendment protection and maybe the biggest Think they're having is not coordinated ST Nobles I'm typically when the federal government gets engaged in a law enforcement operation is with the concurrence and coordination, state and local Sauron's The acting homeland security chief. We're talking about Chad. Wolf has said that he has the authority to do this. His background is in transportation security, but that's besides the point. But he said That not only is very authority to do this, but that's been AH brought out. For example, by Kelly McCann Ini, the press secretary for President Trump's administration, she says the court house is on fire. There were fireworks set that officers and she cited 40 U. S. Code 13 15. I'm not sure what this is Michael shirt off, but Essentially getting back to what you said it supposedly gives the right to bring in these federal agents in these federal officers to protect federal property. Ah, the distinction here that you're making. I think this is the most significant one. It's Ah! The right to do that, but not necessarily the right to do things that not only they are not empowered to do but have no training and doing like urban policing and crowd control and civil unrest of all the rest of it. And I hate what we've seen on some of the videos reporting is they've gotten pretty far afield from the actual federal property. On also the tactics you're using. When they want to question somebody became them are more of what you would see if you were doing it in an operational environment above border conflict. Rather than in city. And I think he caused trouble in fact uniforms Resemble military uniforms and military has objected to that and again, it creates confusion about what he thought. And if I go to Josh Campbell on this, you've been observing everything that's going on. As I said, You've been no hit by tear gas, and you've seen the protests. A lot of a lot of these protesters are you know they're there, for example, walls of moms, and there are people who are just Not at all and teeth of people or ah, radicals, anarchists. They're people who are concerned about what happened on what's been happening in terms of racial justice and They're out there For that reason, primarily a east. That's what I'm reading. But you do have probably protesters who are on this and the reports that air coming in Well, doing some things that are certainly unlawful by any standards. That's right. And I think that it's important to look at the timeline first and how these protests began. And this began in the wake of the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis at the hands of police officers and these protests. We saw them across the nation, the city by city, including here in Portland. And what started as calls for racial justice. Calls for holding police officers accountable, quickly morphed around the July 4th holiday. When President Trump sent in federal resource is in order to protect federal statues here in the city of Portland. This was the part of an effort that we saw in different cities, and you really saw the protest movement began to shift a bit. They still are calling for racial justice. They're still calling for the end of excessive use of force by police officers. But it took on a new tone where you then saw protesters ordering the federal resources to depart their city. They didn't want to see this influx of federal resource is and night after night. We've seen protests overwhelmingly peaceful during the day. You know you have crowds that air out and I think it's important to note and I think it's important because I, you know, I consume a lot of news and including Nearly everything that comes out of the White House, and what's being framed by the White House is that thesame of Portland is in a state of bedlam..

Coming up next