Israel, Palestine, Editor discussed on Jewish History Matters
Because these are the terms that students as you're hearing in the streets in the student union building just usually go to metaphor for the way that israel-palestine optimism plays out outside the So part of what we're we're trying to do is enable students to bring back the sloganeering and slogans on protest signs and import back into the classroom using scholarly lands to really investigate. What's going on so sampler Who You mentioned who ultimately decides that competing nationalisms is a better framework in south colonialism Still take setter colonialism seriously before. He concludes concludes so what the students will see. It's not a shouting match between these two perspectives between these respective authors. It's thoughtful engagement and that's really I think what we're trying to model. Yeah I just want to emphasize I do. You think that those distinctions matter and I do think that these debates matter. I think the question that I was trying to ask here was about the intersection. Between the scarlet. Discussion and the the scholarly efforts to try to pin down the right terminology pin down. The right frameworks one versus the other. I think some people outside of the academy they look at these debates and the either right off some of these terms like there are a lot of people especially within the Jewish community. who very apprehensive about anybody? Who's claiming that Israel? Israel or Zionism is colonial to any extent. That's one thing and I think that that is really problematic. Because fundamentally shuts down a conversation that we the scholars have been having now for a long time. About how do you understand. How do you conceptualize and compare and contrast the efforts of Jews to settle in Palestine and and other colonial enterprises around the world? Whether we're talking about Canada where you're talking about the US whether we're talking about Australia. Whether we're talking about European powers involving in Africa in China Japan Etcetera and I think that this is part of the reason why it matters but I think that part of the question here is. What do we gain from exposing the people to these debates and from trying to bring these scholarly discussions out into a broader sphere about terminology in about frameworks? My hope is that the a debate will become more nuanced by those who read these respective essays and so the question is not as nearly as clear cut. I think in the Israel Palestine case as it is in the anglosphere the settler colonial countries that you mentioned Canada you have upscale New Zealand. Where the a settler communities did not have historical ties to the land that they settle the matter is certainly distinct in Israel so these are debates that readers will be able to engage gauge with more thoughtfully and with more nuance with more knowledge and sometimes some readers will find that if they're on the fence about whether one category Ori is better than the other or they they already believe? That category is better than the other they WANNA see. If they get convinced won't get convinced tonight others will be persuaded to us is the dynamic ability. Ability of the book is that some people will side with the offered that they already ABC read with and others might find that their ideas change part of what this highlights. It's for me. Is that that. This distinction between foundational issues and contemporary debates are not really divorced from each other in a lot of ways. It's useful for the for the table. We'll contents is useful for sort of presenting the material but in a lot of ways. These debates which are financial issues are actually still contemporary and these contemporary debates are still foundational and a lot of ways absolutely and we have some tactical thoughts about that when we put at Chapter Chapter let self-determination in the first half in the Foundational House. 'cause what we're really trying to do and we succeeded was hash out the Tuesday solution versus one state solution debate in different words. And I think that's what Red Sauce Leagues Essay. DASGUPTA says Hodge and Ron Greenstein is looking looking at the concept of what it means to self determine in the concept of what it needs to be yet. Jewish state in today's international global formation dated to natural systems system looking at the norms and looking at the ethics of knock by and Financial Ism and again passing up that debate in ways that are perhaps a little surprising to career. I think that if we turn to the contemporary debates two of them that really stood out to me as I was reading through the book where the sections that dealt with intersection. MBBS the reason why. I think that that those two issues are so important both on their own and also within the context of the book is because the highlight the crossover between in Israel and Palestine broader social justice issues of our present moment. Essentially the part of what I'm thinking about is how the discussions about Israel and Palestine. Elstein tie in with bar discussions about how we fight injustice so there we're talking about your sexuality and then also the extent to which tactics and strategies that have proven effective in other instances particularly South Africa can be applied to Israel and Palestine how they're being pushed as a strategy by certain people and I'm really obviously opposed by many people as well. I WanNa talk about both of those. An all-star with intersection -ality my thing intersection -ality is that this is really important. As we think about about the shifting alliances as they relate to Jews in the diaspora and other groups as they relate to the Israeli Palestinian conflict for instance. If you look at the chapter that Joya you you wrote you know. He argues that a more robust black Palestinian alliances still going to emerge in which reflects in a lot of ways. Major shift from The realities of breath fifty sixty years ago when American Jews they tend to understand their own. History has been kind of on the right side of history when it comes to the civil rights movement. Part of what I ubis suggesting here is that this is changing. And the situation in Israel and Palestine is sort of forcing Jews into the opposing side of the oppressors as opposed to those who are interested Civil Rights and liberation. Part of why is your sexuality is important because it is a tool that helps us to think through sort of what is happening on the ground both in terms of Israel in Palestine itself and also in terms of the debates about the discourse as you said which is the way that it manifests itself in the US and Canada. I want to put it out to you guys. Why do you think the intersection analogy is useful category for thinking about contemporary debates about the Israeli Palestinian conflict? How discussed and debated in particular as you mentioned? Engine Mirror right. This is the language of the college campus that this is the language the students are using to talk about different kinds of injustices which are taking place today. What is your approach to thinking about intersection with all of these things in mind so in terms of when we were crafting the book and figuring out? What are the topics who want to deal with? I think you've hit the nail on the head that one of the reasons. We had a chapter on intersection or the S or international law were apartheid was because those are common tropes in common words thrown around when people are debating and discussing israel-palestine in both on academic campuses and beyond so we were doing what we could to. Okay this is a common word that pops up also also a lot of these work pop in in media about these types of topics as co editors. I think in American speak for herself. We were trying to Somehow tap into the pulse of the discussions on israel-palestine today and then bring people in to offer perspectives on these given even issues as a non co-editor per se. I would say wearing a different APP. I would say well intersection. Audi is that word is it's pretty common on university campuses now especially with people who identify with the left than the right. It's dominant entry point into all. All sorts of social justice issues in Israel. Costs is one of them but it has to deal with connecting. What is going on over there with what is going on over here? To some degree we it's UNHEALTH- growth of globalization in all sorts of phenomena taking place around the world for decades. Now I'll add one other thing. Is that in wearing the two hats. 'cause Mary and I both have pretty serious opinions. On all sorts of things related to these topics. It was more difficult for me. The Mirror Mirror master this much better than I. Sometimes when I was editing given Essay Mirror would be like. Hey remember. We're editing but not not without perspective can be difficult when it's issues that you're so passionate in connected to to enter any conversation or any topic or your answer a question like you're asking wearing a an editor hat. Were wearing an author hat so to speak in Chin. That's struggle that Aaron outlining part of our role is editors also is to codes Challenges Authors our role as editor is to imagine ourselves in the place of a critic who vehemently disagrees with an author's position. So would it. Offer say in response to arguments Y Z it often the authors would be getting anyway for their counterparts in their clusters of two or three in chapter. But when they weren't we would be standing. So that's what's important part in terms of intersection alley. We actually call that section intersectional alliances because an important essay within that chapter is about. US foreign policy life and how it has shifted over time with regard to israel-palestine House probably shifted less than the grassroots might like at the Democratic Party for example so there is up interesting attention being trained to nat essay by us about how the views of some Kenya I need new democratic representatives on the scene are trying it push. US foreign policy perhaps leftwards Crew term are part of that Bush does derive from issues of race and gender and other identities in the American context. Obviously I think Erin as you're pointing out. There is a distinction between how you approach these topics as an editor and how you approach it yourself as a scholar and also as somebody who's involved in all sorts sorts of issues. I can also appreciate this because also as a podcast host. I also have a similar situation where you are dealing with issues as yourself and also in terms of trying to shepherd a conversation in which I think is a big part of what you guys are doing with. The book is trying to shepherd a conversation. But if we take off the editor hat for a moment as you look at some of these terms things like intersection things like Expulsion things even like narratives. There are some people who reject these ideas as having any value to begin with particularly from people who are more on the right wing side of things more on the left. As you mentioned intersection. Alan you particular is a very central idea of left wing circles very specifically part part of what I'm asking here is as you look at the ideas that are being engaged with here on the book and there are of course people writing in the book for instance writing about Ds who are vehemently opposed to it. Where do you see this book fitting in in terms of expanding the discourse about Israel and Palestine when so many people for instance within the Jewish community kind of scoff? Put these ideas to begin with some of anyway. Let's take the easy when I some people in the Jewish community scoff at that. Some of those people also really derive great purpose from writing public pronouncements in opposition to yes while they may be very frustrated by date. They don't want to be silent. Twenty shoes so this book again braves together scholars activists who have some say about these very saline issues as richer sexuality me me we could say that some people might roll their eyes at but again it's a perspective that is used in many activists circles than the question. is what kinds of insights sites. Can we take from it and people may agree or disagree but I guess what we're trying to do in. The book is not necessarily debates the value of terms on their own but to the debate the policy directions and political.