Twitter, Steven Crowder Steven Crowder, Carlos Maza discussed on The Product Experience


Nazi group has been using using your product so it's GonNa take. I think a complete retooling. Maybe a philosophical ossoff matching of how we're going to do business in the future and how we're going to make sure they don't get on in the first place but it's also going to be. We like we have to sit down and make subjective decisions on who were going to allow on our platform who were not going to allow on our platform. There's no lay book for this again. I don't have an answer. I don't want to tell you what to do. I shouldn't tell you what to do. It's not my business. You need to be able to look to your own values values to what kind of brand you wanNA build to decide. WHO GETS TO USE Your Your Business. What you're what you want your business to be known for and then then make your decision just as an example bumble is dating that has a very very clear sense of its values and those values include integrity already equality. There are feminist up the way that they have marketed themselves the way that they want to be seen perceived in the world. This is how they get customers the customers by users air platform and twice now it's happened that users have flagged up once it was. George Zimmerman the a young guy who killed Trayvon Martin and got acquitted so technically. I don't know but George Zimmerman and Jack Pacific he's a white nationalist like all right cool and both times when they were flagged up bumble acted incredibly fast and took them down took those accounts down. They said you know these accounts. The these type of people don't belong on our platform and indicates of George Zimmerman it was not only trayvon Martin but he also has a history of domestic took violence. It doesn't make sense for them to have people who are like obviously publicly known for domestic violence to be on their platform. That's not what their platform stands for doing. Protecting attacking their brand so that you know people especially women their core group user group continues to use their product this is this is a business concession so we took a lot of Improv that you manage the entire user experience from from end to end but a lot of times people are we're working only with a DEV team with a designer copywriter maybe but they're not necessarily working with marketing with support. They don't see this picture sure who else besides bumble who is potentially a good example of a company that seems to to get it and is managing the experience well. I in contrast has done a fantastic job you know they they know what their product is about. They know what they want their users to be doing on their platform and they know what they don't want on their platform. They know what they don't want to be known for and they've been very proactive in taking down anti vaccine misinformation some like bogus medical information that kind of stuff if they had not acted could spread very quickly on their platform in for them it was a decision will that's not what we want people to come here for that's not what pinterest built for so from that perspective like with that clarity that vision they were able to make the decision. Take that stuff down the actually I should be clear. They haven't taken it down. You can still pin it. It just won't be included in their algorithms so it'll never spread byerly the the way that other information could is this something that from. I don't know if you're someone who uses a business model canvas and things like that. We spend a Lotta time defining proactively who our target market is and things like that. Is it a matter of also proactively defining the anti patterns don't want or what kind of content you don't want yeah. I think that there is a space being created for that now. I can't say I know exactly how yet I think for the first time businesses that have things like mission statements and values statements which you know we just throw up on their website and forgot about. They're going to have to start pulling it out again. I'm looking at it and really deciding whether they're going to stand by that because you know groups like is we come around and we say you know we. I go to their websites and I look get their value statements and that's what we use. When we talk to businesses we hold up this mirror to them and we say you talk about. Here's your code of conduct. You claim to to be for integrity equality now like you're. You're very strong anti harassment policy. Why would you be funding or monetize ing or enabling a user like this orne individual like this when it's so clear this is what they're doing if it's not okay in your business within your business internally. How are you okay with enabling it externally in the world and they're going to have to start revisiting that stuff because that's again. That's sort of like our. Mo Not to give away too much but that's what we that's what we do. You know. It's it's. It's stuff that you've been saying that you've been using in your marketing and talking about like this is what makes our companies special more. Just putting up a mirror your to your own values and asking you okay then go ahead and stand for it. Here's your opportunity seems like there's an opportunity if full unit as is this a trend with neo customer products so yeah perhaps says an opportunity for platform which enables your business to autumn wipeout any kind of support the hate groups Baio Platform. Oh yeah well I mean. These guys are extremely persistence. There's a reason they keep coming back to platforms like pay pal strike all they create a new account and they they're back in and as far as pay pal knows you know. I think the KKK under there sort of like purpose. They're you know what they do like that. Little feel that says you know what our businesses in what. I am who I am was donation blessing for the 'cause like I I've seen I think Alex Jones site that has a pay pal out link to it saying I provide web design services like they keep coming back and they know how to play the stem because right now the the system wants wants them in there. It's easier to keep them in there. It's very very difficult to moderate at sort of unlimited at scale system so it's easier easier for everyone involved to just let e group of volunteers do that work for them. That's where we're at right now. And that's what I would like to see change because at the very very least what I wanna what I WANNA do is is push the problem back to brands and back to tech platforms that they take their own business problem seriously so that we don't don't have to do it for them. Yeah and it's interesting as well because with social media in a you can crowd socio editorialize allies ation of the of the platform if you like with people flagging up inappropriate contents but if you're not that way inclined you're not going to click on something which seems offensive to then discover what tolls using and how can I highlight this is this is a message now full so if you see something offensive click on it and see what they are actually using and then highlight that yeah and let the company's no and frankly it'd be public about it because if it wasn't for groups like is for individuals letter during this work people wouldn't know and again businesses aren't interested in acting shall shall we see we try to keep this as public as possible because we also want other platforms smaller platforms to be thinking about this as well. We want this to be on their radar in a way that hasn't been for has been everyone's radar but you know facebook and Google haven't responded. It's it's almost a problem. That's that's so out of control. You'd have to go all the way back to square one to to start taking care of it. one thing that really really upsets me is to see the enormity of what we're dealing with is there's as a journalist named. Carlos Maza he is a he was a journalist box on he would make little explainer videos kind of explaining current event issues and things like that and he announced on twitter back in. I think June saying that you know ever since he took on this job he's been bleeding harassed online by a guy on youtube named Steven crowder Steven crowder would make these like homophobic racist ethnic slurs against him and he would end up being you know seeing a wall of harassment hatred on his instagram and twitter profiles like on a daily basis and he he brought attention engine to this and said you know Youtube has a acceptable use policy dot should ban the sky from having channel but instead. He's being monetize. He's he's being amplified by this platform and this thing went violet was drink pride months you know and Youtube which had invested I don't know how much money and how much effort for into changing everything to rainbows on all their social media and you know sponsoring all these pride events and whatever they were faced with a very very very substantial problem like very basic question are we going to continue allowing this gay guy to be harassed just for being gay like that should be an easy answer right no down but they didn't they couldn't even come up with a straight answer they went doc on it like twice and then they came back and they were facing a ton of PR rusher in the came back and said okay. WE'RE GONNA keep it up but we're going to D- monetize it okay. We're not GONNA make any money off of Steven crowder. Steven crowder's not gonNA make any money off of youtube account. We're not GONNA make any money off a video but it turns out that Steven crowder doesn't make money on Youtube. He makes the bulk of his money. Selling merch that March is sold by shellfire on one of the teachers he was selling was Carlos. Maza is a F- word T. Shirt and shoplift is taking a cut of it. He's taking a cut of it. I mean look at this system. That's play yeah yeah and that got sure has come down now shop if I won't sell it anymore so they took it down but if you Google and I did also for for my presentation I discovered a lot just doing research for it. If you Google Carlos Maza t-shirt you'll have dozens of sellers selling that exact t-shirt who will take the cost of it. You must have the weirdest searches I do. It's unless aw is kind of it's kind of depressing but I'm really glad that you guys are out there holding these businesses accountable unflagging this stuff up and I know I will surely be much more aware of it as I'm traveling around on the Internet looking at things and tagging you in twitter tweets when appropriate so for anyone who wants to get involved. It sounds like there's two different with zoo. One is to get involved with sleeping giants directly. That's a matter matter of just a visiting twitter and you've posted some instructions on how to do this in a way that is respectful and just bring awareness rather than bring them to task so that they can confront them with their own values but the other is It sounds like just being aware and proactively questioning around your own company. Is this what we want to do. I have we thought about this. Have we taken the appropriate steps to protect ourselves from a brand reputation nations. This is something that we truly don't want to embroiled with. Is that the key messages for people yeah absolutely it is number one first and foremost to be aware the second to start thinking up a plan. How are we going to handle this issue. Should it come up at our company. You can't afford as a business to wait for days days or weeks to come up with an answer to this. You know social media moves fast so sitting around waiting around trying to figure out what you know what you WANNA do waiting for it to maybe go away. I think one of the worst things you can do. The best thing to do is have a plan already in place. No who you on your platform you don't want on your thought form and be able to just come out strong and say no. This is not what we stand for. This is not what we built this business for. You know we're gonNA take them off. It's really as simple as denny. It's been sorry lovely having you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having well. There's a lot to think about their. You know how our products are represented in the world. How we react will find something contrary to our values on the platform it reminds me of ratio when she was talking about the Black Mirror absolute and I realized that we have never taught at least not publicly about values. We have for this podcast yeah. That's a good show. Oh okay. Let's jump into it. So when we started we committed together to a couple of things we have a commitment to diversity you know we wanted to make sure that we had a good mix of voices wasn't a monoculture and gender parody but also people from outside the US in UK and at different levels of their career and we're doing pretty good on that you he reminded me that we're right about fifty percent on gender right now and but was still a bit heavy on US and UK voices but next week's guest I will help on that front and there's still some work for us to do and getting people earlier in their careers as guests so if you've done a talk at your local product tank or in the great blog boost were seen one from someone else we WanNa know we've got a wing for guest suggestions on our twitter bio where MT P. Pod but it feels like we're doing well L. on the other Prince Po which was to keep the conversations accessible to everyone regardless of level and we'd love to know what else you want to learn about so please give us a shout and well planned episodes around the topics. You suggest the and the product experience is pot of the mind. The product network a heists me. That's nearly Smith and Randy Selva. Emily taste is our producer and luke. Smith is our editor emily hours loan the we're happy to share luke if you need someone to your own podcast hey you can't him too much. He's my husband..

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