Make arrival in britain for asylum seekers more difficult than it already is steve these new laws. How much more difficult will they make arriving in the united kingdom and claiming asylum. I mean the first thing is. I hope this bill never goes into becomes law in the way that the government would like to. It's the most extraordinary set of proposals that they are putting forward speaking infant torch. We work with those who've been through. The worst of the worst is torture survivors. Go through therapy with my colleagues but obviously trying to get the asylum system to work better is one of the most important things that we do it enormously problematic through the home office's fault in many many ways there's a lot of process problems there so instead of addressing those problems. Boris johnson seems to be putting not seems to be is putting all the blame onto the asylum-seekers themselves of vanishingly. Small number of people are allowed in this country through what's called resettlement. Which is if you like. The privilege version is a very very slimming. It's a small number of those. It should be much bigger. But there's no signs is going to be much bigger to be honest. And what they're now doing is criminalizing people who are seeking to our for example across the channel which is the one that gets constantly the front page headlines which is really both offensive and and lacks any common sense to be honest they many of those arriving for example of come from iran which this government would also agree has an appalling record of its human rights record of course people fleeing that are offering torture the un refugee convention which celebrates its seventieth anniversary at the end this month and uk played a really important role in creating it at the very heart of at nine hundred fifty. One convention is the idea. It doesn't matter exactly how you arrive. The most important thing is why you've arrived is a good reason to be here or not. I'm basically what bars sean. Since government is trying to do is to tab that we've commissioned a legal opinion from some of the most senior lawyers in the country the these things who've confirmed what we could easily have guessed that that this is absolutely in breach of the obligations. So we'll see where it goes from here to be honest. Is there any argument that if you approach this issue in total good faith which. i think. It's fairly clear the british government is not. There is an argument that the laws do need to be reformed will the laws and conventions governing asylum. Do need to be reformed. Because they were drawn up and written up were they not for a world which was less fluid in which access to transport was more limited in which there just weren't these kinds of numbers of people in all different kinds of parts of the world looking for asylum. Well they need to be withdrawn redraw in the sense that it's unfair to expect pigs. Expect greece or or italy to take the majority of refugees. Arriving in the eu. But this is really populism re large. I mean i have a sneaking suspicion that this is the kind of legislative legislative proposal which will prove to be impossible to actually pass but it sounds very good assessment constituency and the The priorities the scale of the problem. Are we really going to introduce bone density. Scans to see whether people are are nineteen or seventeen. I mean is this is this the level is the level. We've we've reformed him in the whole idea of described people as illegal is it highly unsavory but pretty patel doesn't even really need to pass this legislation right. They just the government needs to show that it's been strong on this This kind of Diffuse danger of other people trying to get here. I mean you know what's a lot with Asylum-seekers as well and the funny thing. Is you know what what many of them say. Especially people from syria. See well why did you. Why did you try and reaching well. Do the germans have to set up with a really recruit egg. The friends your frankly just really mean to us but the english in noise that kinds is perception like we can. We can make it here. You know that. The you know the british bobby and so on. It makes me very very sad to to to see that this is perhaps not not the case anymore. Steve is there anything. Do you think to the argument which has been raised by this government. And i think they've borrowed at fairly wholesale from my own homeland of australia. That taking a harder line is ultimately a humane proposition because it it stops the boats from coming because people. It's made clear that there is no reason to come by boat and that has obviously knock on effect in wrapping up the people trafficking networks Who no longer have any business. This has been australia's line that fewer people drown And the people trafficking networks and the people who run them who are doubtless ghastly Deprived of income is does that argument. Stand up at all. I think it does. I mean australia's you say has been notorious in what has been doing and also during the offshoring of putting people off to to narrow orange novatell also exactly which which pretty patel jesse going going to the others point just now they come up with these things so they floated with the papers a couple of weeks ago. Oh we'll send them all off to rwandan ran. The said like we don't even know about this. What is this. Un refugee agency. The unhcr's what you talking about. You haven't discussed this before that. They came up with a dot in the ocean ascension island these such random ideas which feels they feed days headline. And then you go if you actually talk to be blocked as this. Oh no it's not really developed but they just feed these things which make headlines australia which which you rightly referred to. It's very much in their minds. It's a really interesting case. Because in fact that was the policy but the has-beens as you probably be aware as well there's been some blowback on that as well and actually we're seeing like actually. This is not the way forward for the country that we want to be. And i would love to think that we can get the same but in slightly faster time to be honest in that process has happened over a number of years australia of society going like actually why. Why are they coming up with these guidelines which are fundamental about cruelty. But it's not portrayed as cruelty as you say both in australia but here also with a goal which to me is absolutely staggering. The british government presents these proposals somehow helpful to asylum seekers. find me. A refugee is in this country already..