Michael Jordan, Reggie Miller, NBA discussed on The NBA Show
Be Winter on your Tex Winter Your Phil Jackson. I think that when when they re write our story that's going to be our sorry Shawn Fantasy. What's up man curse? We all know that I'm pippen and Jordan. Let's let's not be ridiculous here and I've got it's early on Monday morning and I've got some backaches and your carry me through this finals game. Show we're GONNA talk about the last dance last two episodes and we're GonNa talk about the documentary itself because I think obviously the last couple of weeks tons of people including the two of us have talked about Jordan. We've talked about what Jordan. Meta we talked about what Jordan was like to watch in the nineties. And we've watched it unfold as it does as there's almost everything in two thousand twenty. We we watched Jordan become a football. That people kind of US going back and forth to argue over all sorts of hot button issues. But I kinda wanted to talk to you at the top about the idea of of last dance as a documentary now. We've we've done the disclosures before you've talked about working with Jason in the past in the rarest got connections with Jason. I think we're both really big fans of this of this movie but I want to ask you like at the end when you finished last dance. Were you left? Satisfied as a as a viewer. Did you find it buying experience easily? A satisfying experience Probably even more so than I expected I loved just being with I think so many people around the country who care about sports and even those who don't care about sports had something to look forward to every Sunday night that gave them an astrologer hit and I think that's an interesting way to approach this conversation. Because there's been. I don't WanNa say controversy but an ongoing conversation about whether or not a nostalgia hit equates to journalism and I don't think that this necessarily was a pure act of journalism but I also don't think that it was puppet tearing either. I don't think that somebody you know. Put their hand up Jason Harris back and forced him to make a certain kind of film. I think it's a fascinating and very modern hybrid of where access documentary. Journalism is right now and it was immensely fun to watch and there were a couple of reasons for that one. Obviously we're dealing with archival footage from the ninety seven ninety eight season that most people have never seen before and two were dealing with archival footage that we've seen over and over and over again and I never tire of watching which is the history of the NBA basically from nineteen eighty four through nineteen ninety eight which is for you and I is a glory period and we get to do it with through the Lens of a person that we virtually never hear from in this candid and acidic and still indignant way in Michael Jordan. So I personally I loved it I I you know you and I have both seen one through eight many weeks ago and nine and ten were fresh for us so it'll be interesting to kind of impact but what about you I mean. Did you feel like this was beyond entertaining? Was Worthy of something beyond what? Bill has called the documental. Yeah I felt like it. Basically replicated the sensation of watching sports. I felt as invested even though I knew the ending as invested with the sort of details of of plays like how Reggie Miller exploded through Jordan's chest or how John Stockton or Steve. Kerr would find open space or watching. Scotty PIPPIN CLEARLY LABORING UP THE COURT AGAINST UTAH. After he had kind of done his back in and a lot of that stuff really was was a bomb for me. And I'll always have a really fun place in my heart for this documentary because of that. I do think it was really fascinating too because it took me back to a time in my life when I did not actually think about sports entertainment. I didn't really think about whether or not. I liked players. You know they were either better than the guys I liked or worse than the guys I liked and I also didn't feel like I had a ton of choice about who I liked and part of that was formed by Jordan. Part of that relationship to sports was formed by this guy. Who's just like fuck? You abstained Chicago. I'm coming back and taking what's mine. You guys think you're better than me. I will crush you and that actually was how I thought. Sports worked for very long time. That's the story that the movie tells like the film is book ended by this quote Jordan gives after he's drafted re says. I WanNa make the Chicago Bulls like the Boston. Celtics like the Los Angeles Lakers. I WanNa give the city and this team that same identity which feel so foreign now that that feels like it happened in a toll key novel you know like the fact that you know player empowerment and the the ability for players to move from team to team and the fact that the league in many ways is a player league and not a team league just it does feel. It reminds me of watching fifties and sixties. Nfl films about players in black and white. That almost felt as if they're operating in different sport. Yeah we're then they were like yeah. I broke my nose four times in that game. And you're just like okay. You know I wanNA talk a little bit about the end and I think that this is Kinda doubles as a conversation about Jordan. But I want to talk a little bit about foils and villains because Jordan's villain and foil at the end of his career with Chicago Wild. You could make the argument that it's Jerry Krause Jerry Reinsdorf from the people who are trying to break up this dynasty or don't WanNa pay for this dynasty what we get on the court is the Utah Jazz and I remember while I think. This documentary taught me that those series is a lot more closer than I remembered. There was a feeling that I had a lot watching Jordan during those days. That you've kind of toying with people the idea of saying he's got. This is something. That's very hard to say now. I remember thinking that about Marian Rivera. I remember thinking about about like Tiger Woods and I remember thing about Michael Jordan Marian Rivera eventually gettable by for a long time was just like Verizon you can turn game off watching Jordan against Utah. I don't remember thinking man. Utah's really. They've got their number. This could happen and I wonder whether or not that contributes in in terms of historian graffiti like in my mind the BBC that lasts commits is making. That series seemed closer than ones. I don't know if I'm remembering that wrong. Well I mean they do push it to six games in in that final season. And IT'S INTERESTING. I think if people had grown grown bored of the Spurs mechanistic competent highly structured style of play in the Os in twenty tens like. Let me tell you the jazz were held terms of this like monochromatic indestructible style of basketball. Seeing those highlights. Last night obviously took me back to a time. I was watching so much basketball. Probably more than watch now in in that exact period sixteen years old when that series was happening and the NBA was a huge part of my of my personal life in a very weird way. And I watched a lot of UTAH. Jazz game something. I just wouldn't do now the same way I wouldn't. I didn't watch a lot of spurs games in the two thousand ten and that was obviously just an extraordinary once in a lifetime team. I mean to top twenty five top thirty guys in NBA history. Were on that team. You know to me. It wasn't shocking to remember how close it was because of how skilled. I thought that team was the secondary and tertiary players on that team. Were Really Great Jeff. Hornacek was on that team. That was a really really special team and I think in like so. Many teams like the Knicks from that era like the Sun's from that era like the Sonics from that era like the Pacers from that era as we saw last night if any of those teams if there were nobles if any of those teams had would have had a chance to rise and become the dominant team of that era. That's part of the reason why it's part of the case for MJ. As the greatest player of all time is there's just a sense that the competition was so much stronger from nineteen ninety. Three one thousand nine hundred and the NBA than it has been in the last ten years even still. I completely understand what you're saying by the time we got through five MBA championships. It didn't seem very dramatic and in fact it felt like if Mj the Bulls didn't win it would have been a massive let down because of all of the conversation on the last dance. And because of the way that their position their season was positioned. So it's it's a paradox in a way if they had lost or had gone to seven games and squeaked it out it would have been like it's actually was kind of disappointing season for the pulse which is strange to say but also. I. I don't WanNa underestimate just how punishing it was to watch. Stockton Malone night after night after night after night. Because they were they were a machine and it's a testament to those both teams that they beat them twice and the second time in their own building. Which as I recall was just the most incredible homecourt advantage barring the Bulls in the NBA. Yeah I mean Reggie Miller calls going back to Chicago a death sentence if you go back to Chicago three one. He's like it's a death sentence. Reggie Miller by the way. I thought fantastic in this documentary. Excellent Great Great Narrator. He can be such a cornball sometimes on on doing color commentary during Games. I wish I we got this Reggie Miller. I know obviously like he gets the benefit of hindsight and it's talking about himself but I thought he was so funny and so candid and also still. Kinda like I'm pretty good. You know what I mean like I get during this number. Somebody follow on twitter named Mike Beach. Last night was tweeting. I think this was the dude who is like when you look at Reggie Miller's numbers that it's just like fourteen point seven points a game but then just hit like only the biggest shots in the world and was just an absolute like he was just an assassin at the end of games. You don't have to tell me as an experiment. Nobody tortured me. More than Reggie Miller Miller Torture Knicks fans more than Michael Jordan. I think Michael Jordan and there was an air of magisterial grace allegations as it was something handed down from God Reggie Miller was as if Satan came from below I mean he he. He absolutely tortured people and you're right though the way that he talked about. Mj and those bulls teams is very similar. To the way that a lot of the superstars who were interviewed in present day talked about him in this film which is with adulation and admiration and completely uncomplicated. Acceptance of the fact that he was the greatest. You know if you listened to Barclay talk if you watch stockton last night in the episode. You sensed that there was no debate. You know there was no arrogance or anger. There was it was almost like we. Even though we all lost we were grateful to have been part of this period of time in bed basketball history which is just so unusual and and when we get whatever. Lebron's the last dance is twenty years from now. I'll be very curious to see if his contemporaries speak about him in the same way. I can't imagine Chris Paul or James Harden or Russell Westbrook or durant reflecting on Lebron quite the same way I could be wrong but it's so unusual and you're right Reggie Miller identifying. Mj Is Black. Jesus saying I only called him black. Jeez or Jordan Jordan from that period on was was fascinating..