Barbara Mcquade, Barr, President Trump discussed on MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)

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If you could stick with us I'd like to get your take on that before. I let you go. You bet. Great Barbara mcquade. Former US attorney from Michigan. We'll be back with us for more question. When we come back. Stay with us. Back with us again is Barbara mcquade. She's a former US Turney from Michigan Barr. Thank you for sticking with me on this. Logic Cummings chairman of the oversight committee has released a whole bunch of documents tonight, and they're from the office of government ethics that some handwritten notes at some typewritten notes big big pieces of it appear to be redacted this that release from alleged Cummings looks like, but he says that what these documents show is that a couple of lawyers working for the president one who worked for the White House in one who worked for the president in a personal capacity gave false information to the office of government ethics about that hush money payment, the hush money payment that was the basis for the felony charges against Michael on the campaign finance felonies, he's going to prison for next month. Those are the campaign finance felonies is implicated the president is having directed into commit those felonies. Nell coming says that other lawyers so the president gave false statements about those payments to the office of government ethics when they were working on the president's sort of financial disclosure about these these matters is this something that is sort of slap on the wrist territory is this potentially illegal. Legal if they made false statements about those payments. Yes. A making a full statement to any one in government is a crime. It's the same statute eighteen USC sexual one thousand one full statements. It's the same crime. We've seen Robert Mueller charged many times for lying to the FBI or line to congress. It is similarly a crime to lie to a government agency about some matter that they are looking at within their jurisdiction. So if the office of government ethics is is looking into this and someone makes a false statement to them that is a prosecutable offense. And that this is one of those cases where there's a popular perception that it only matters. If you lied if you were under oath, but lawyers will tell you it doesn't matter if you're under oath, if you were lying to federal officials in that kind of a context it's a crime, regardless of whether or not you ever put your hand on a bible. Absolutely, right. It's a different crime. If you if you lie under oath, it's a crime of perjury, if you're not under oath, it's different crime crime of false statements, but they're both punishable by up to five. Five years in prison. Barbara mcquade former US attorney for Michigan. You helped us so much over the course of our production day working on these stories, and it's great to have you here being clarion as always Barr. Thank you so much. Thanks. Rachel is much more to get too. Busy. Busy busy Friday night. Stay with us. This will go down in the history of the Trump presidency as the day he declared a national emergency a national emergency in national emergency that requires him to build a wall between us and Mexico because of immigrants crossing the southern border. What will also hopefully, go down in history is the fact that right after he declared that national emergency. He immediately got on a plane and flew away to go to one of his private clubs to play golf for the weekend. One of his clubs where he and his business are under increasing scrutiny, including possible legal scrutiny for hiring. Lots and lots of illegal immigrants to come work for him..

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