They remember stuff that they didn't remember in the cops later. corroborate what their memories are all this bullshit that's been smeared mainly because of certain groups of people who are implicated in crimes have kind of created this false memory syndrome. Bullshit not far. Off the trail but hopkins says this research is going to trigger of experiences and it does thousands and thousands of people start coming forward and saying oh my god now that you mention it. Yeah i was abducted. And there's this whole movement to kind of discredit that because for whatever reason but most likely they whoever they is didn't really want that to come out quite that way at that time but budd hopkins is really an important figure in this whole skull disclosure process because of second with with whitley about this it. It transformed the thing from a nuts and bolts. There is a craft in the sky to a consciousness phenomenon. The whole i mean leslie. That's what you've been pursuing ever since. That's what this series is all about. It's about except not with respect to. Ufo's i've always kept them separate. You know okay okay. All right all right. So i pick it yeah professionally. I have to do that. If i'm gonna write for the new york times you know. I'm writing about what the department of defense says about the latest video that you know what the of the program says blah blah. But it doesn't mean. I'm not really interested in exploring that connection. There is a connection somehow and whitley talks about it all the time between the ufo phenomenon or at least the impact it has on people in the journeys that people take and what we might call some kind of afterlife realm or you know where deceased people go. So whitley's whitley to me is the person who has spent the most time with this and has had the most direct experience of it but i'm fascinated by that that question of how they all how it all goes together but i don't think i'll be reporting on that very much in the new york times. You know what i'm saying. Did i mean say. We'll leave it at that. But i mean you drop that into the series. You drop that into the series but hopkins bit. Yeah i mean it just so happened that he was the guy that a lot of this. Yeah i hadn't thought see you see into ucla. Level of things through all of this. That i don't you know. I think is really really a great contribution. You're making because. I don't think a lot of people see beyond the surface level and i didn't even. I didn't see a lot into that until you brought it up. So i think i love the everything you said about. How like jim tucker. You can just see that. There's more going on with him. I mean it's great that you're able to go to that level with this. I really value that. Well that's nice of you to say. I think you're doing it. I think you're doing your work the way you do your work. Because that's that's who you are. I mean that's that's leslie. Cain and that's an important contribution this so we're all looking at it. You know looking at the elephant a different way..