Gordon Watson, Middle East, Emma Nita discussed on My Family Thinks I'm Crazy


Fly garrick mushroom had anything to do with it or do you think there's a maybe a loss species of mushroom that might be the culprit because i think the flag garrick mushroom is pretty ubiqu- leg it's very noticeable but very unique so i think if it was truly that mushroom we might have more evidence. Is there evidence for what your thoughts because his red and white for those who aren't familiar it's that classic red and white dotted mushroom that you see associated with like santa claus and when you look into that kind of stuff right yeah. It's the garrick is interesting. Definitely i think has a prominent role in definitely in european religion in a lot of european cultures. I think it did have a minor role in the middle east. There's a particularly in. This region of lebanon is seems. Has there some popularity in this area concerning this maybe up into turkey a little bit as well too but i think that the tropical suicide and mushrooms probably actually more common in egypt and in because this was a warm tropical climate and probably had a lot of moisture and fog coming off the mediterranean and the red sea and around that area. I think would have been more conducive to the tropical suicide and mushrooms rather than the the amanita mysterious which typically grown colder climates so being a mountainous region in the middle east. You'd have some emma nita's growing but it seems to be more common to europe and i do give have one brief section on this in my book were a terence mckenna did also bring this up to keep brought up this notion. That are gordon watson. The father of my college really focused a lot on the amanita mosquito mushrooms and kind of steamed to disregard the suicide and mushroom. Some kinney's it tears mckenna offers an analysis. Why did he thinks that is. It's really interesting so we kinda quote from gave eye. I interject a little bit too. But it seems that are gordon. Watson was european scholar in that symbol. He was familiar with yet. It's it's a very common. Russian kind of religious symbol in his wife was russian. Are gordon lost. Twice was rushing. So it's kind of. His wife was actually the person who introduced him to mushrooms in the first place. But that's what kind of sparked his interest in this in this area. They were on their honeymoon and she picks the mushrooms and she was delighted. She showed in the mushrooms he was just terrified. And apparently this this event just like ruined their honeymoon or something and down so he just became so curious about. Why what by did he have that reaction to the two mushrooms like they were lethal or toxic and an why she loved him so much in cultural difference just really fascinated him and he started studying the stuff so i think i think he just kind of focused on the anita's a lot because that was kind of his world that he was coming from and what back then. People didn't think that suicide and exist anywhere except for south america but now we know that the that they're suicide mushrooms in israel and egypt and all over the middle east and india's well so i think it's reasonable to assume that the tropical areas of the oath of the mediterranean back then especially when it was more fertile about three thousand years ago seems to be the case that it was yes the i think you're definitely using suicide mushrooms but probably some amanita mushrooms there as well so yeah very interesting. I know gordon watson was yep big partos like it becoming a thing in the sixties and obviously you're traveling down to mexico remember learning some of this in one of our favorite books that carlos cast in teachings of don juan yawkey way and he may mention this kind of sacred relationship with a little smoke. He calls it right this little. He sprinkles mushroom powder into his pipe and smokes it with a blend of different things. Have you looked into like the native american or american use of mushrooms at all as a somewhere. You might go in the future after you get through. I mean the bible's of big task. I don't wanna. I slipped in much right now. Yeah it's it's great. You know i'm pretty. I feel pretty happy with what i've been able to do with my english understanding of the bible. I think it's pretty good. Other scholars might go through fine-tooth comb and beater correct things. I made a mistake on. Or maybe they'll further elaborate on some other things. I missed or didn't notice. So i i'm just doing this through an english lands and just trying to get a pretty simplified english version of a just a sensible way of how this might have happened but seems to be that their historical story so i just give them the benefit of the doubt can just work through it and think about how this might be a real historical event and i look at a lot of scholars to draw from a lot of people. So they're not like doing this myself. I'm on the internet all the time looking at stuff in trying to look at other points of view so it's soars native. Americans are concerned. Yeah that's that. I'm interested in indeed indeed indigenous american culture too. Yeah i serve. Read an article recently that there was an interesting like cave. Drawing of this five pointed star at they thought was it was in south west america. I can't remember where it was exactly. But they thought it was. Depiction of detroit flower. Which which is this scopolamine flower. That is it has a very kind of dangerous reputation. And i think probably rightly so seems to be dangerous but one of the more dangerous plant drugs that are out there but it seems that this was probably a big one in america i think the the the deterrent plants were probably be care and the also big at europe to back in the day the called bella yet winning we take it to make their is bigger her pledge to be more attractive reduced. Really thousand carlos's book to might angry at the chin deter and they mentioned like this is only for the most season shamans under the right circumstances them with the right preparation because it is very deadly and and i didn't realize that scopolamine was the same plan because i've heard the scopolamine Being used in like south american countries to like drug people and knock them unconscious and then rob them and it has like a a losing your memory type affect and industry. That's that's really. I'm in this like a ninja during this. Very scary stout yeah. The is something that he definitely want to be. Careful with mushrooms and cannabis were pretty good for most people. I mean that's that really does. It's it's pretty. That's us pretty strong. If you take enough of that you not miss out on too much on salvia and gypsum. We'd are also mentioned in that book and salvia is another interesting one right. I think jemson weed is a type of either savvier deter. I'm not shook moore detoro yet citizens. It is a deterrent. It's i think a slang term for deterrent. I think julia yet. I think that's kind of what he mentioned is like there are certain circumstances or pieces of the plant that you can use and yeah apparently gypsum. Ye like gives this like two three week. Almost peyote like trip if you use it under the right circumstances. Avi sat on advocate for that. But yeah it's definitely there. There's offense -iety of hallucinogenic plants out there especially right here in america. No kidding and yet the liberty cap is one. That's actually been really interesting me quite a lot lately which is a type of suicide and mushroom that grows in grass instead of on cow manure. So you have it. The tropical suicide and mushrooms that are white and they kind of got this golden-capped and andy grown in cow poop in cow pastures typically tropical climates. There's another kind of suicide mushroom. Is that we kind of nicknamed liberty cap. This grows and grass can grow in colder climates. Like just before. The new ids grows up in new york. He crows no oughta different places where etiquette. So the maybe we can find some fear. Because i i've gone around. You know several places in connecticut and found really beautiful mushrooms. a whole variety never eaten anything. I'm for it. I jameson and i worked for a farmer's market and there is a guy who sold forged mushrooms. I mean i've found turkey tail and all that but that's really to know that there might be liberty caps up here. Yeah yeah it's i think that they're they're kind of up in that area and what's really interesting to think about. Is this the symbol of the liberty cap being such an important symbol for the american end. I i don't know if this is just a coincidence. That american revolutionaries us a liberty cap is the symbol of their this revolutionary laboratory movement. And the fact that they call these mushrooms now liberty cavs. I don't know what that is a little incidents that i mean. I think this might be a a part of the culture. And there are a lot of native americans that fought on our side during this war. There's really interesting thing and saving for the next block. That is just like it's what it's choice printed. I'll tell you this episode coming after we had david way on the podcast whose martial artists like myself we. We're talking about wu tang and these taoists dang who they're not aesthetic. They don't like abstain from drugs so they're able to do anything right. This really kind of freestyle monks and are we didn't get too much into that. But i wonder now maybe the taoist sir using stuff like that. 'cause i myself as a martial artist i know that when i started smoking cannabis in conjunction with my training beneficial symbiosis and i wonder like if taken a bunch of mushrooms helps you know ger- musket faster and like get to war against the british like that that would be kind of profound defined some some evidence for that. I hope that's what may be in store will seaman like. I don't know it's it's it's interesting. What were i can't say. I mean just preliminary without spoiling it. I think there's some good reasons to believe that. Some very prominent figures in the american revolution Or were aware of this mystery. Symbol of this kind of liberty cap in this goes back actually. Before the american revolution goes back to roman times. I think that this was a symbol of basically senatorial government meaning like group government where people got together and made decisions together in at the mushroom was a part of that symbol of people coming together thinking together living as community and working together and that's in ancient wrong to had it was the symbol of liberty cap at was it was a symbol of a freed slave to which is very interesting thing this notion of liberation that comes from from drugs that comes from it but that there that comes from sorry these these psychedelics in accompanying that with this political liberation is. It's really interesting to think about it. that way. it. I can imagine that if you're revolutionary soldier on your starving in your the the congress having a hard time getting food supplies up to your camp and you find these mushrooms. You're probably gonna eat them. I mean in a talk that you're probably going to have a good time to now. You're not hungry so much at you. And you realize you're fighting for this noble cause and i'm sure it would increase your nerve in your fervor and you would like pee freak. Douse it if you're going into it with that kind of loyalty to the cause on the loyalty that revolutionary cause. I think that it would probably be very beneficial very helpful. George washington sat in a very interesting chair up. I'll give this piece and if you find this piece online there's some interesting things that are attached to it. He sat in this very interesting chair. That was meat for him by freemasons and on the top of this chair was there is a son. that's his. I think it's called the rising sun cheers when it's called. There's a son in its rising but he does so odd like right above the sun. It looks like an umbrella but it really looks like a liberty. Cap mushroom is what it looks like. Easy order out. Washington sat in his cheering. It's on display still. I think it's in pennsylvania or somewhere. Really soften look that all right leah. Incident really really a great way to end the app. So this is a great conversation. Judge ordered it. I enjoyed it. Thanks for having me an atom of corallium. This has been a blast. We really are honored to have you here linda. Yeah thanks listen to the my family thinks. I'm crazy podcast..

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