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Now Stephen Harrison is convinced that President Donald Trump has many of the same attitudes and behaviors and use as many of the same methods as cult leaders and he just released his latest book called. The cult of trump. A leading cult expert explains how the president uses his mind control. So Stephen hasn't joins me here on the show to talk about cults about cult leaders called followers and of course about Donald all trump steve. It's good to have you on the show. Thanks for coming. It's a pleasure thank you. Let's start with a resume for my listeners. Who are not familiar with your work and you give us just a Snapshot Snapshot of your background and a cult and how you came to study colts? Sure I'm sixty five years old when I was eighteen. I was recruited by Women flirting with me at Queens College. New York And they were recruiters for the Moon Colt. I grew up in a conservative Jewish family family and was not interested in changing groups or religions at all. I wound up being persuaded. That moon was the Messiah. Yeah ten times greater than Jesus or any other spiritual leader in the world was GONNA come to an end as we know it and was convinced. The Drop Pat's college quit my job. Donate my bank accounts and Dow before with the Korean Messiah. Some young moon I've spend two and a half years in the colts. I was promoted. Pretty high up for an American I fell asleep at the wheel of a fundraising man and nearly died. died as I drove into the back of a tractor trailer truck in nineteen seventy six Resulting in surgery and hospital. That'll stay and visiting my sister who I hadn't seen in over a year and then my family pounds and programs me from the moonies and and that took five days and when I woke up and realized that moon wasn't from the Cya I wanted to understand. How did I adopt off these crazy? Beliefs started studying the psychology of brainwashing mind control coercive persuasion. They've no SIS and in Nineteen eighty-five became a mental health professional and they've gone onto off their four books on the subject helping people from a variety righty of different colts Including Colts personality or multi-level Marketing Colts Political called therapy. He called for large group awareness. Chaining the whole issue for me is undue influence our unethical influence that makes people disconnect next from their minds from their conscience from their creativity and often from their family and friends who are trying to say esteem. Wake Up. This is not good. Do you think there's something about some people. At least not all that makes us want others authority figures to do the thinking for us. You know to pat us on the head and tell us it's going to be okay and and just sort of hand as our lives identities future. I do think there's something to that. Yeah absolutely so I have Kind of Psychology orientation and I studied developmental psychology as well as clinical psychology and social psychology. But we were all children once and we all you know every every single one of us as as little kids wanted to believe that the world was just wanted to believe Mommy and daddy couldn't answer all of our questions and keep us safe and the world would be idealistic and then we grow up and we realize that no parents encircle odd. The world is not just terrible. Things happen to good people and Part of growing up is is being able move to you. Know have have faith in yourself and the goodness of others while also navigating and protecting yourself from people who are looking to do you harm. That said I can tell you if you were raised in a family where you were told to obey or parents blindly and even corporately punished if you didn't you're going to have a very different brain development than a family that is is encouraging you to be curious and adventurous is explaining to you rather than physically punishing you if you do something. That's that's hurtful or breaking the rules It's a very different brain chemistry and for people who were raised in a more authoritarian. You know just total obedience mode. That wiring is still in our brains so it makes all of us susceptible to someone coming along to be that big daddy figure or mommy figure who's going to say everything's going to get fixed. I can explain it all trust me so I think that's a factor. I also can say that people go through situational longer abilities where they can be taken over by a cold group through such as death of a loved one illness Moving to a new city city state or country Graduating graduating losing a job. Something that set you off balance is another way. People can get the separately recruited into destructive cults. What do you mean by destructive destructive cult? Can you define for US sure so I have in my work. developed an influence continuum and Because we're on the radio I would have your listeners just See a kind of continuum on the left side ethical influence And on the right side of the continuum unethical were destructive influence And within within that continuum on the left side there's things like unconditional love and conscience and creativity and humor and free will and critical thinking. And what I referred to as an authentic self That's curious and adventurous and once the grow wants to have good relationships on the contribute attribute on the unethical side and or destructive cult side of things of pseudo identity. That's in the image of the co-leaders is developed and love is conditional upon being obedience and doctrine is expected to be followed not conscience. And where there's there's fear and guilt and essentially dependency and obedience and punishment. If you're not so for me with my frame frame the way I think about the world there. There are colts on constructive. Benign even productive side of the continuum so the people who are like really big sports fans or really into a certain music group or Whatever that you're free to to come and go you're free to read whatever you want to read talk to whoever you want to talk to It's not intruding. Your core sense of self or are your your ability to make decisions for yourself as an adult whereas the destructive cult all of those things are at the hands of whoever the authority figure is or the ideology of the call that you're involved with. You mentioned the image of the cult leader. I know the moonies had sung. Yung Moon the Peoples Temple. Apple had Jim Jones Heaven's Gate had Marshall Applewhite the branch Davidians had David Koresh. These are charismatic. Human cornerstones for lack of a better word but for the organizations they've found it does. The model of a destructive cult usually revolve around his single charismatic figure often but not always and I want to just say to your listeners. The Way I think about it there are political culture there because or large group awareness training cult not adjust religious cults. But that said the person who's in the front or at the head of the essentially authoritarian structure is calling all the shots and in the unhealthy groups. There's no room for criticism. Excuse me Sir you just lied you know. If the person's punished kicked out immediately of a destructive cult where is an a healthy organization the leader Peter Wants to hear from from other Some leaders and even from rank and file members and is willing to say oops I got it wrong or and and be accountable and transparent so that there are checks and balances and such before I get into the subject of your new book. I WanNa talk about about the bite model which is arguably what you're most known for here at reference. We've referenced it here on the show quite a bit. Can you explain the bite model for us when it comes to colts. Yeah sure I would start by just saying the model that helps me wake up from. The moonies was a model by Robert Jay. Lifton who in his nineteen sixty one book reform and the psychology of totalism was describing Chinese communist brainwashing and he had an eight eight Criteria model which frankly was Not that easy to understand or explain and then I then. I learned earn Margaret Singer's model and Louis wests model and they'd be shines model. They were all military intelligence studying chains communist brainwashing. And so what I realized. Is You know what I read the book by Leon Festinger. When prophecy fails we came up with the theory called cognitive kind of dissonance theory and he said we have thoughts feelings and behaviors and we as humans? If we change one the other two will shift shift to reduce dissonance. 'cause humans don't like conflict we want to have some continuity and those those made a lot of senses organizing organizing principles thought control and and behavior control in emotional control but it was missing a major piece which I realize is was information control because in my experience no one joins destructive cult. There deceptively recruited either by Information being withheld or distorted or through outright lies so in a legal term. There's no informed consent so I took you know the Thought Control Behavior Control Information and emotional control and rope combating mind fine control in nineteen eighty eight my first book and then a few years later a friend of mine. Buddy Martin said you know if you change the order you can in Kuala the bite mark with the be first and then. It people remember it. So I think him I. In credit him for Saint Change Ancient Order of the four components and by Stanford. Forgive me bites. Ask for what my politics behavior. Control is the B. So I look at sleep deprivation for example or Chink requirement for clothing or food reporting ah to others rewards and punishments. So there's a lot of fame your old things that destructive called school will use the I. He is information control deceptive. Recruitment information is different. From the inside I would portray to the outside of the group information different within the pyramid inside the organization. People are are asked to spy on each other turn each other in any information that shed with them about your past. Maybe use the manipulate you. So there's a whole laundry list of behavior control all information. The troll thought control emotional control variables that I say the more. That's going on in a particular case If the result the oldest creating a dependent obedient pseudo identity. That's kind of like in the image of the leader clone of the leader. Then I say hey that is that is the epitome of destructive mind control cults the thought control as black and white US versus them good versus evil thinking members of top thought stopping to shut down any any negative thoughts. There's load language to shut down in in critical thinking and with emotional control. You're made to feel special and chosen like you're GonNa see the world but mostly it's about guilt manipulation collation and the're manipulation with the biggest technique a law is what I call phobia indoctrination which is is the implementation of irrational fears. That if you don't do what the leader tells you or what the ideology tells you to terrible things are GonNa GonNa Happen to you and you lose your soul. You'll burn in hell. You'll be possessed by demons you'll be hit by a car..