Calabasas, Chang, Jamal Khashoggi discussed on All Things Considered


Right now cool forty degrees in Calabasas from NPR news this is All Things Considered I'm also Chang and I'm ari Shapiro Saudi Arabia has sentenced five men to death and three to prison for the killing of Washington post columnist Jamal Khashoggi the CIA concluded the construction was killed at the orders of the Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman the crown prince denies that and he has not been held accountable joining us now is hollow although sorry she's a Saudi human rights activist and fellow at the MIT center for International Studies welcome hi it tells a little bit about how the Saudi justice system worked in this case was it what people in the west would consider of free and fair trial I don't think it's really up to any kinds of international standards of due process the Saudi justice system is very much like shrouded in secrecy and it's especially in this high profile cases where there's some kind of political influence we haven't seen the evidence we haven't seen the testimony we don't even know the names of the people sentenced to death exactly is there likely to be any future accountability or is this the end of it well very much dependent on how the action to this kind of the no verdict so far we've seen a continuous attempts to support and cover up the whole thing by the US administration by other entities who largely failed to all those involved in the killing specially in the leadership to account several lawmakers in the United States and international leaders have condemned what they called a sham trial at the same time here in the U. S. a state department official speaking anonymously yesterday told reporters that the verdicts were quote an important step in holding those responsible for the terrible crime accountable I don't think that's true at all and everyone knows that these people were actually following orders from their superiors of their officials it's really incomprehensible that those people would be able to board planes owned by haven't been sent man himself or by the state coordinate with the consulate now with the foreign minister in order to execute this kind of high profile getting you're describing some of the evidence that's been uncovered by third parties including do you and the CIA and the Turks that suggest a very different narrative from what the royal family's pull forward yes that's correct and these are all evidence that has not been checked or collaborated with in the process of the trial I know that although you're here in the US you've been speaking with people in Saudi Arabia how are Saudis reacting to this it's very difficult for many people especially those was honored as what are the rights advocates who are people very much concerned about the due process and the execution of justice what's the reaction been like among ordinary Saudis were not involved in activism but they seem very where this go to judge the sentiment of the public in Saudi Arabia because of the lack of spaces where people feel you know safe enough to express their opinions unless the provided spaces where you know what you know always on big disappointment basically there was a strange split screen quality to Saudi Arabia over the weekend where there was this huge music festival with famous DJs an Instagram influencers posting on social media about how great it was to be in Riyadh clearly part of a PR push by the royal family how do you square that festival with the convictions that were released just a day later well you can truly dismissing the timing the timing has been very much like crucial and all the other cases where a political email address nice have been detained it took more than two years for the case to even to reach courts and you get to see this case which is within a year has had to you know a verdict the first verdict and on the back the job of this kind of you know all the facts yup I think it's very much like part of the P. R. that has been employed from the beginning by the leadership to the service the image hello elder Surrey is a Saudi human rights activist and fellow at the MIT center for International Studies thanks for speaking with us today sure New York City has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country but second amendment activists hope that the conservative majority on the US Supreme Court will sooner or later make it easier to legally have a gun in America's biggest city and here's Martin Costi has more this is one of the few places in New York City where it's legal to shoot a gun it's the west side rifle and pistol range on west twentieth it's about as cramped as any sublet the owner operator Derren long calls it a New York oddity or pride the last commercial range in Manhattan if you have a gun license in Manhattan this is where you practice but he says having a legal gun here is really hard very very difficult to obtain a license very costly he says the city has a reputation for denying gun license applications and even gun licenses from other parts of New York state are not valid here in the city they're even strict rules for how to transport guns and weapons unloaded in a lock box with a triple a kind of a lock on that box the emission imagine would have to be separate from that box they don't want you have the ability to use farm in this situation as a result guns are just scarcer here in everyday life you see it in the stats despite an up tick this year at new York's murder rate is still much lower than other big cities and the share of murders committed with guns that slower to just fifty four percent compared to an average of eighty percent you get a sense of the city's attitude toward guns here at the NYPD seventy fifth precinct a bunker of a building in Brooklyn upstairs as the field intelligence office run by sergeant Damon Martin office isn't that big but we've pretty much covered all four walls with pictures of our gun seizures each picture is tagged with the legal basis for the seizure sometimes it's S. W. for search warrant but often it just says consent that's a big one here for these field Intel officers because that's what they do they talk to people have just been arrested and then they get written consent to go find their guns I feel like I'm doing a tremendous job and I feel pretty good about it because I have great results you see the results they hear there on the wall but here's the question this kind of police work this intense nonstop search for guns does it depend on having strict gun laws does it depend on legal guns being so hard to license with sergeant Martin can say is right now it's pretty easy for him to know when a gun is illegal you have to be licensed to license division and if you don't you're legally carrying a firearm the bottom line is they're unlicensed Kerry file no law is going to keep a criminal from getting a gun or committing a crime with a firearm that's Tom Kean the executive director of the New York state rifle and pistol association that's the group that brought the current case the Supreme Court against the city that case was specifically about the rules for transporting guns but he thinks in this age of greater judicial sympathy for second amendment rights the city's barriers to legal gun ownership in general are unsustainable and unfair if.

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