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Bobby is the headache. Go to school and become friends in the House House. What kind of people having headaches having fevers they're having the EIZABURO name sniffing and it's just edible to people with existing issues news Find it was and it is a public policy failure. Actually visu winning our future by doing this. The Aaron Delhi India's capital with almost twenty million residents is unbreathable over the last week levels of dangerous fine particles Leeann owners PM. Two two point five have ranged eight to sixteen times. The safe limit humid. It's toxic. Mix a pollutants Delhi Chief Minister of in Castroville. It was likely to a gas chamber. Emergency measures have been taken by deadliest govern including casting school halting construction diverted flights handing out face masks and rationing the number of vehicles allowed on the street but all these just ineffective stopgap measures in a country where diseases related to air pollution. Kill an estimated one point point five million people a year. Hello I'm Nathan King and welcome to the heat. PODCAST with us to discuss. The crisis in Delhi is Dr a shadow Chakrabarti she. He is a risk of behavioral scientists. Also an expert on climate science. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much thank you. We've all seen the videos coming out deli before our well. Listen kind of paint. A scene of what actually is going on in the because it's quite incredible. The best way to describe it is gas chamber. And so I've I've been to Delhi myself. I've never been there During this time of year. which is this expected? Consistent pollution the great smog that rolls in every November in between between harvest between Rice and wheat. Right but I have friends there. I have extended family there. And they haven't been able to leave their homes except to go to the office and and you know. Just run to the car with their masks on. And it's been like that for the last five days and this is expected to consistently happen for at least a few more days And then we know it's coming back again next year so you said Rice and wheat burning. What exactly of the residents daily breed in what is so unique to this pollution? Shen right and air pollution is has particulate matter and is made up of nitric oxide and self rock side and there's all these different components but what really earliest contributing to the smog. In Delhi is The burning of stubble following rice harvest in the Punjab region. And so what's unique unique about this particular type of smog is that it is It is resembling a smoky fog. Which is why it's called smog? And it's visible and and the tiny levels particularly matter that you described as pm two point five can enter deep into the lungs and reach highest seven hundred micrograms per cubic meter in some areas and the World Health Organization recommends that PM two point five levels should not be more than twenty five micrograms per cubic meter in an average of twenty four hours so we wave past those levels over several days to go deeper into that this particular matter. What does it actually you too to people especially overseas the more vulnerable young an elderly so for young people it can cause severe developmental hold delays? You can imagine children that are inhaling that kind that kind of toxins are now going to have the same sort of brain and cognitive development that their their counterparts in other parts of the world that don't have to deal with this type of pollution and in fact studies have shown exactly that that there are developmental delays in children that are inhaling this type type of toxicity the elderly as well are experiencing chronic respiratory issues and it doesn't even matter necessarily how vulnerable in terms of age men and women across all age spectrums are being admitted to the hospital because of weasing because of asthma because of respiratory conditions that are stemming from these toxic harmful chemicals and this is something that again it happens every year hospitals report doctors report and it's worse this year than ever. This is the worst in three years in terms of health effects from breathing in these pollutants On the public services to. That's exactly right. It's a stress on the public services. And don't forget those who can afford. It can actually protect themselves much better than those. Who can't so? It's also creating this climate apartheid where you have those who are more vulnerable and the more exposed that are going to be affected not just in terms of health but in terms of productivity. So it's actually creating an even bigger gap between the rich and the poor more and more pollution hitting Deli just in the last few years. Is it increase in. Production is not a plan in terms of air quality and people saying on the streets. I've seen pretty pistol. Yeah as you can imagine because this is not. It's something that is that we shouldn't be prepared for right. This is something that has been more or less a problem for decades ever. Since the Green Revolution in India the idea Jio was to create the upper Indian states of job in Haryana as the bread basket of India so by incentivizing farmers to plant rice to plant wheat and the government made it easy for them to do that by making electricity free and so something like rice is very water intensive and you need to be able to have a lot of energy to pump that water for the rice paddy fields and so for that reason because the government made it easy for these farmers to harvest these crops crops. They started doing it. Why wouldn't they the issue though is that it was only a little bit of turnaround time between Rice season? We'd season it's just a couple of weeks and so ultimately how do you turn that land around so that you can start the new crop bright stable so you don't have to burn the stubble but that's the cheapest and easiest way to do it because ultimately what should be done is machine tilling of the fields Or fellow for a couple of months. Try and get the nitrogen back that he's Oklahoma exactly or reusing the stubble for animal feed but this particular stubble just doesn't is not nutritious for animals. It can't be re Packaged that way and Labour's actually just like cut down these crops and so the stubble is pretty high rated. We're talking about several inches and it's really sharp and so you also would I need to pay laborers a considerable amount of money to do this work. It's not the easiest work so the cost just made it not not prohibitive exactly. So what's what's the government doing. I mean During the very popular prime minister just re elected This is a big crisis. Firmness seconds of so Angela Merkel Chancellor from Germany was visiting Delhi when this kicked off last week and her and mody went into the smog for a public appearance despite how toxic the levels were and McKell Said very clearly that this is unacceptable and we can help you figure out ways to reduce this through enhancing vehicular transport to green systems. uh-huh there's real obvious measures that can take place here but we need to talk about the difference between short term solutions and long-term solutions. These pledges an overhaul of the transport system Overhaul of agriculture and making it more sustainable there's ways to look at it that can immediately take effect versus really transforming the society as a whole Hawk you know lot developing countries especially India have said look we understand. There's a climate crisis but you guys in the developed world had terrible pollution hundreds of years when you went through your industrial religion. I remember my dad growing him in London he got asthma. Because of all the smog remember the Churchill smokes kind of is now India. The reason why shouldn't there be some robin lecturing. Germans were not feeling right. Yeah I mean can you imagine so. The West had its opportunity unity to go through the industrial revolution to really prosper and grow with economy. And now you have. Countries like India Brazil China that are saying what about our turn. Why do we have to do differently? Friendly but ultimately if we don't change the practice if all of these countries did the same thing the US and the West did too. Oh Yeah we just can't afford it. We can't on a global populace afford it. You can see how much it's hurting. The citizens at in the urban centers and Delis Not Unique Deli is In the list of thirteen of the most polluted cities or fourteen of the most polluted of the fifteen cities that the World Health Organization has really red flagged so it's not only hurting the domestic domestic population climate change air pollution are not impacts that Respect national borders so having a city or a region that it is suffering from pollution. We're going to see that shift from across borders and so these aren't.