Syria, Afghanistan, John discussed on John Batchelor


Over half a million September nineteen sixty seven. So the quagmire of Afghanistan. Jed a very good evening to you you right up to quagmire is actually combining them into the third quagmire. The first quagmire is the unconquered Afghanistan. Is there odd is solution for the Trump administration that doesn't reconsider the same failures of the Bush and Obama administrations good evening to you? Good evening, John. No, there's no way to deal with Afghanistan or Iraq or Syria for that matter without admitting that the strategy coming up from the Bush administration, the nation building strategies a failure. And you know, you, and I have been talking about that for I don't know how many dozens of years, but the fact of the matter seventeen jed. We were younger man while we started with this guy. Remember, john? That's really the point. I mean, we have not learned a doggone thing. Because Mr. Trump is now getting us into another quagmire just like Afghanistan in Syria. Yes, why do we need three quagmire is at once? I mean, we don't need any at all. But the fact of the matter is we've got one going in Afghanistan, which is still not susceptible of any solution. And Mr. Mattis was over there talking about well, maybe we can compromise the Taliban and chart a path to peace where the Kabul government stays in Kabul, and the Taliban rule pretty much everywhere else. Well, that's not going to work. We know that that's going to be as successful as the nineteen Seventy-three peace accords in Vietnam, and the Taliban is gonna go right after the Kabul government and deal with it and take it out. So that's not a solution. And Mr. Madison, obviously knows better. But we also have people still in Iraq still fighting ISIS still fighting apparently Mocatta solders in Shiite. Militia. And now we have a new strategy for Syria, a new strategy, John. Well, we're now going to push Iran and its proxy forces Bala out of Syria, how they're not going to go peaceably and at the same time where according to this James Jeffrey who is Mr. Pompeii Pompeo's Representative for the Syria engagement, whatever that means. Now, he's saying well Assad must go, well, it's not really our policy, but Assad has no future, but it's not our job to get rid of them. And now our goals are including get this. And I quote from Mr. Jeffrey, quote A, we want to establish a quote, stable non-threatening government acceptable to all Syrians and the international community. And quote, it's going to be a part of mister Rogers neighborhood. Now how that's going to happen. Who's going to get rid of Assad dot us? Okay. How is it possible to form such a government in Syria? John I mean, this goes back a nation building again. And that's another quagmire that's gonna win. Mesh us for the foreseeable future for beyond our lifetimes. Let's have some fun chat. Let's go to the Cold War Kremlin. The GRU liaison talking to the presidential office is the GRU. That's Russian military intelligence is the GRE wise to say we're doing very well in Afghanistan. Mr Putin, we're doing even better in Syria. We're driving the Americans crazy is that is that you paranoid of me. Jeff. Adjudged to a guests that the Russian see their opportunity to drag us into these quagmires is one more time the way they didn't Vietnam. Well, drawn it's not only not too paranoid. It may not be paranoid enough. You know, the question really comes down to what else is Mr Putin doing. We know that Russia is funding and arming the Taliban. We know that they are in Syria in great force and have established permanent basis. They're in a partnership, literally a signed treaty with both Iran and Turkey are supposed ally and NATO to preserve the Assad regime. So what else is Mr Putin doing? I suspect a lot more. And we don't even know the first part of what else he's doing because we only can see the obvious from the point of view, then the Americans like quagmire, we just give them what they like we're good at it yet. We were good at it in nineteen sixty three. We're good at it here in two thousand eighteen we get in John accept it doesn't ever come out to the point where. Isn't that the point we spend blood and treasure for unsolved states, and it goes on for decades and president after president? That's what we do. Well, that is what we do John. But why do we continue to do it? We know it's not working. It didn't work in Afghanistan. Didn't work in Iraq. It's not gonna work in Syria. Why do we keep making the same mistake because I suspect nobody can figure out anything else to do. We want to endure inflict an enduring defeat on ISIS and Syria. Okay. That's fine. That's a good idea. But you know, you're going to say now that you wanna push Iran out of there. Well, Iran gets a vote in that you want to let the Russians out of there too. Oh, gee, they don't want to be let out they wanna stay. So how does this actually add up to anything sensible? I can't imagine people who know better like John Bolton and James Madison, some of the others that they could even sign onto this. But it may be just people below them saying to the president. Well, we're gonna do with this. And he says, okay, I'm reading a new book about Vietnam the road to disaster by vandermark, and it's in my mind jet as you speak. Did you know I did not know that between DNB info, which divided the country in half and Kennedy's inauguration? Sixty one at the Eisenhower administration spent seven billion dollars. That's U S nineteen fifty dollars on the m the m and propping up a Catholic regime in a Buddhist country against Hanoi seven billion dollars. And what did it create a created the conditions for the Vietnam quagmire? So we're doing the same thing. It's presidential his presidential ceremony to do this pass it onto each other. Even when they know better. I'm pretty sure that Eisenhower knew better, but he did it anyway. So why should we be different Donald Trump knows better? But he's going to do it. Anyway. Well, he must know better. But highly he doesn't because these people are getting away with setting these. They're telling him the same thing all over again. Jed just a few more billion dollars and some advisers, then it'll be okay, Mr President. Well, you know, if Mr President, Mr Trump actually knew more about history, if he'd studied anything in terms of military history or foreign affairs. Right. Any of the things that are having to do with the things that you, and I talk about all the time. You know, he would know better. In Howard studied that history. He was very good. He wanna war with it. Right. And you Kennedy knew that colonialism was the curse just like FDR did. But he committed to it. He knew when Maxwell Taylor came back. He knew the report that Taylor was giving with McGeorge Bundy wasn't gonna go anywhere. This is nine hundred sixty one November sixty one he couldn't stop it. So. I'm underlining your point by saying, I'm feeling fatalistic about this. We know better. And we can't stop ourselves. I'm feeling very fatalistic too. And I know you've read Paris nineteen nineteen by Margaret. Yes. Yes. And it all goes back to that. It all goes back to Woodrow Wilson and saying, well, we're going to make the world safe for democracy. We never have we never can we never will. But Mr. Wilson made a Mark on American foreign policy. We're still living with today. And that is the basic problem we have to get through our thick skulls and through the thick skulls, our presidents, and our generals that we cannot succeed in doing this in order to nation build you have to first defeat the enemy, and we have not defeated the Taliban. We have not defeated ISIS. We've not defeated Islamic terror, nor did we defeat Moscow. Chad that's becoming clear that's very true, John dot Babylon and John Batchelor old old old veterans of the same story. We've dull for. Seventeen years. But we've now got it on Eurasian scale at the beginning of the war exercise between Russia and China seventeen years from now if jet, and I are lucky enough to be here. We'll tell the same story. I'm John Batchelor show cagey. Oh. It's.

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