There were both presidents of the american historical association. Now i could look at recent presidents irrespective of party. I couldn't imagine them following a meeting of the american historical association almost much less being president. What do you think about that. Well sometimes i confess. I have trouble following some meetings in the american historical association. But i very much take your point you know. There is a common invocation of history. It american foreign policy. It's just superficial. There's been a lot of discussion in the past five. Ten years about the so-called postwar. Us lead rules-based rules-based liberal international order almost entirely aim to say how terrible it was that donald trump supposedly stood against it. When really hardly anyone could define what this was and then if you would read descriptions of this supposed order it would include institutions like the eu created in the nineteen nineties in that order You know nato is created after the un is that just a million problems one. What has with it so Bef- we don't just need more history. That would be nice but we need to have a real openness to the richness that history properly understood can provide us. It should be mind opening and often makes doesn't have easy lessons not the simplistic lessons That suddenly become the talking points of of of of the day and even words contested the very contesting of that can be valuable and we just simply for the moment seemed to be turning our back on it. Let's enclosing stephen worth. You obviously have so much to think about your written a brilliant and beautiful new book and by the way it's very attractively designed as well as written so beautifully. Is there anything. You'd like to leave our listeners. With today why hope your listeners judge the book by its cover so go look it up tomorrow. The world the birth of us global supremacy My words don't do justice to the beautiful cover. You're absolutely right. And i had nothing to do with that cover but More seriously i hope that Listeners will find it to be Enjoyable read and one that is illuminating. Whatever they make of it. I think it's possible to read this book. I made a lot of discoveries in in archives. It's i think it's probably impossible to to read the book and not learn something you hadn't done before and I think it's possible to read the book and come to the conclusion well maybe. Us leadership military leadership was Important and necessary thing. But i hope you'll think about why that was if that was the In its original moment in the middle of the twentieth century and whether going forward.