Has China Won? With Prof. Kishore Mahbubani


Professor Shore Mahbubani welcome to the Model Majority podcast today my pleasure rejoin you. All right. So to get a conversation started, you know the focus of our interview today is your New Book Has China one, and there are a lot of things over to dive deep into with you on this book. The first thing I wanNA chat about is this notion of the Chinese civilization party as you know, very well, the as an acronym is sort around quite. Casually, in the media in foreign policy circle to describe China as a whole right the Chinese Communist Party and you believe that this is actually quite an inadequate framing to understand China as a country as a people and you believe that by thinking of the CCP as the Chinese civilization party is perhaps a better way to think about it. Why do you think this kind of change in terminology is helpful in helping the United States in particular understand China. I think it would make a huge difference. If the American people came to realize the truth. which is the main mission of the Chinese Communist Party. Is Not export communism to the rest of the world. which was the mission of the Soviet Union's Communist Party. But to try and reform I've and strengthen China's civilization. I what I told you is is a basic of. But most Americans, do not know this basic truth. Because, when they hear the what Chinese Communist, party. The what communists in the American imagination. is by definition somebody WHO's evil and doing bad things. That good a good communist continent, an oxymoron. In America, in American linguistic discourse. So when you when you tell them that they're dealing with the Chinese Communist, party the by definition, they believe they dealing with an evil party that is out to undermine America out to oppose the American values out to diminish. America's standing in the world without realizing. That the core mission of the Chinese Communist, party is is to make China's strong and what's interesting. And to understand how deeply rooted this mission is remember remember the send the words that Chairman Mao us. When the People's Republic of China was established in one, thousand, nine, hundred, forty, nine, he did not say, Hey, today we celebrate the victory of communism over capitalism and said that he said that she that the keyboards used that China has stood up he said it twice. China has to. So, even chairman mouse goal and he was much more of a communist clearly than the current leaders are in many ways was still China's strong. Too. That's why I think that the communist is. Creates a form of intellectual. Laziness in American minds because they cannot look behind that what the see what is really the purpose and mission. Of the Chinese Communist Party that's why I think that thinking of it as a Chinese civilization party, then they'll begin to realize the most important thing that America in China and live in peace because Chinese civilization is not opposed to American civilization American civilization and not oppose the Chinese civilization and both can live together in peace. Right right. What do you think the US not just a public but really even the foreign policy circle. Right. The folks in DC. The people who are supposed to understand the stuff for living because it's their job. To kind of display, this laziness intellectually speaking, is it just because the Cold War was still such a recent memory I guess for the United States generally positive memory. 'cause we won that we just kind of put the Communist label back to where it was just because it was something that we think we understand. You ask them very difficult question because this is the great. Paradox. About the United States in the United States spent more money. On strategic, think-tanks than any other country in the world I think he spends hundreds of millions of dollars. You not billions of dollars on tragic thing. And yet America the America is the best digit think-tank were. America has the worst thinking in the. And and is shocking for example, though any comes to understanding China? More strategic think tanks very Lisi and using all the conception tariff Nelia the Cold War in the Soviet Union. And then applying it to China, when is clearly not relevant? China. So. The inability. Of the strategic think tanks in in the United States to understand the real nature. Of China. Is actually quite a frightening. Thing to watch today,

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