Flu Vaccine, Influenza And Russia discussed on KROQ Programming
And so that I think is a fundamental question that needs to be asked if the priority is that there is increased rest. Well, maybe they're not really an increased risk. And maybe that's not a good justification for giving them vaccine. And so I think you know, at my hospital, the University of Pennsylvania transmission to health care workers is going down almost zero. What do you think when you see some spots in the world, Russia, namely or China in some cases with with their health care workers where there's a vaccine that hasn't made it all the way through yet, But it can produce some kind of response. So they're giving it a go anyways. Ethically. What do you think of that? Well, it's unproven. I mean, you know, you could be giving that vaccine too, You know, in the case of China, the military and in the case of Russia People. It's totally unproven. That's a leap of faith. And there are lots of reasons that just having any bodies may or may not protect you from Cove it they are relying on what we call secondary endpoints proxy measures for protection. But classy measures may not be good and may not be adequate. And the only way we'll know is by doing a randomized controlled trial with a placebo or another different kind of vaccines that doesn't Kobe so they short circuited really science and You know, many of us think that's unethical. But aren't we going to be doing sort of the same thing? Because, for example, most of the vaccines that are now in phase three trials have two years start is to make sure that everything is just perfect. But no one's talking about waiting two full years to release any vaccines. Aren't we kind of experimenting on the population anyway? Even in this country, I wouldn't call it experimenting. So the question that is being asked, and that is going to be fundamental to approving this vaccine is going to be in it. Effective in preventing cove it transmission and infection on that is the critical question, and it has to be effective enough. Now it is true. We won't have full data on two key endpoints safety will have some data on safety. But we won't have a full year of data and we won't have it on millions of people. So we're gonna have to as redeploy A vaccine carefully tracked people for safety problems and the second issue that we won't have data on is how long are people Immune once they get the vaccine, assuming it works. Is it three months, six months, 12 months or is it longer and that's critical for knowing when we might have to re boost for them and when their immunity will wane, and that they need to get another vaccine, But knowing that it's effective and preventing infection and preventing transmission that can happen sooner, you're right. We won't have full data, but we'll still have the key elements of data that we need going forward. That approval process may be politicized. Given what the FDA has done on convalescent plasma and other things, that's a whole different issue. All right, Dr Ezekiel Emanuel. Thanks so much University of Pennsylvania. You're listening to open line. This is open line. My name's Tammy. Heidi. Joining us is Dr Nermeen. Marcos Clark. She is a geriatric and internal medicine physician with Laguna Hills. Monarch Health Care. How are you today? Good. However you I'm fine, you know, not breathing that great cause the smoke from these fires hit my neighborhood. But we're here to talk about flu shots this season with everything else that's going on. Right? Right. Exactly. So it is. That time of year again, But I guess maybe the pandemic happening concurrent with the influenza. Maybe that throws a monkey wrench or some different special circumstances into this season. It's going to be even more important this year. Teo get your flu vaccine in a timely manner simply because we do have the pandemic amongst us. So we're coming into the flu season as well. So it will be vital to get your flu vaccine in the months of September and October, and they really don't have anything to do with each other. Except that it's going on at the same time, right? They are caused by two completely different viruses. However, they will present the same way as upper respiratory infections from mild to severe and they both could land you in the hospital. Both could cause death if severe enough, So it's going to be very important for everyone to get vaccinated against the flu this year, and what are their different flu vaccines? Thiss year or is it just one?