Steve Bannon, Earl Morris, Errol Morris discussed on The Fifth Column
And Girls Comrades and company Hero's welcome to a special edition of the fifth column podcast onto that cadence. It's just like Camille. And if you're listening to this you might have gotten it through our patriotic which we've finally launched and you will have gotten this early if you haven't gotten into early. We do stagger this a little bit and eventually give it to you cheapskates. Who Don't help us defray are Qasr by subscribing driving? But if you don't we hoped we'd against you I mean we do but we don't tell you that a very special one this time when I was quite excited to do Morris. I think it's probably America's most famous documentarian because if not errol Then maybe Ken Burns so we got to come into the studio and I did a one on one with him About a week ago deliver week ago when his film American Dharma opened in New New York was opening the following day in Los Angeles. But the interesting thing about this as Morris who you if you don't know him you might have seen one of his films act of killing Unknown known which is a film about Don Rumsfeld which was famous in Toronto? where he you know looks down the barrel of the camera to his subject And My name is of course. The fog of war Most of his recent one which is a incredible film about Robert McNamara. One of the architects of the Vietnam War in the funny thing about that film is that actually brought him to the film he just made. Because Steve Bannon who is the subject of American Dharma tells Aero Moore's in the film American Dharma that he was profoundly influenced influenced in his politics by watching the film about Robert McNamara and seeing these horrible technocrats that ruined the world and in Morris is a bit taken aback by this but so we sat down and we discuss. That film has news film. We've discussed. He's he's from Dr Death kind of overlooked one from I think nineteen ninety nine and about a guy named Fred later which I think. He Pronounces Leuchter or looked Dr a Boston with heavy Boston accent. WHO makes a death row devices? Shall we say how does this execution devices. And he also became quite a notable Holocaust. Denier so Morris has an incredible when we talk about him quite a bit and and it's a great meandering conversation. And Morris has a great prickly interviewer interviewee. He's a great interviewer on the other end he's a little a little difficult culpa but I mean that in the most positive way ahead of a fantastic time but the interesting thing about this film because it was shot in two thousand eighteen and is now what November two two thousand nine hundred and in the kind of time. If you think about this a little bit were you making a political contemporaneous political film. That's a lot of time. Because because Steve Bannon influences waxed and waned he's been sort of A friend of the White House. He's been inside the White House. He's been on the outs with the White House. He is now making podcast from these so-called Breitbart embassy in Washington DC Defending the president from impeachment charges So he's all over the place. He kinda random these campaigns in Europe which I made a little film about for the Vice HBO show. He's been all over the place. So why hasn't this. Well we're going to talk about that and in this podcast but just put it this way. We talk about no platforming because is despite the fact that Steve Bannon has had a platform in the White House and running the campaign of the current president. They're a bunch of people who believe at this film shouldn't have been released and he should be no platform because to hear Steve. Bannon is to be poisonous. Influenced by Steve Benham. It's crazy right so on on the Friday that I recorded this evening ban more his his his Opening opening of the film at the Film Forum in New York City I was going to go. I couldn't make it and he was doing a one on one A. Q.. And A. With his son Hamilton Morris. who does WHO's a colleague of mine does a great show on vice land where my no new show is by the way. Yeah the weirdly called impeachment show but Anyway Watch Hamilton show Hamilton's Pharmacopoeia so Hamilton to Morris's onstage with him and a friend of mine sent me an email and it's a image that says it's a piece of paper pink jet kind of print with a blue piece of tape stuck on the wall of a bathroom and the phone form and there's a quote on this piece of paper. The ethics thing thing to me is not a terribly interesting argument. Sorry Errol Morris Indie wire ten eleven two thousand eighteen so a quote from him here and then beneath that it says there are real world consequences to getting Steve Bannon another platform. Please reconsider supporting this film Film Forum provides ventures in exchange for return tickets. So have you seen the premiere of his film asking You. A little piece of paper stuck to the wall in the bathroom to walk out. This is in the stall. So that is what Earl Morris has been facing for even talking to Steve Bannon so that no platforming idea We discuss Along with other things. So let's get to it. This is my conversation Shen last week. With the great filmmaker Errol Morris Errol Morris. Thanks for joining me. Let's talk about the new film American in Dharma Steve Bannon. This took a while to get to theaters and it premiered less September Venice. And it's coming out now. Why why the delay because no one wanted to distribute the movie? But it wasn't because it wasn't a good movie I've seen the movie. It's a terrific. Maybe it was for political reasons. I think it's my best movie movie self-serving of me to say so but yes. I think it's my best movie. Why do you say say that? I mean you've made some pretty incredible movies. I'm in fog of war of course known unknowns and go back into line obviously why is this one better than all those because it pushes a lot of techniques that interest me one step further than I seen them pushed before no one talks about. The movie is a movie. They don't now not really. It's a political statement and they debate the politics of someone someone asked me to blur. The question's been asked in the last couple of days but someone asked me will wind people get so infuriated by this movie What exactly did you do actually? It's a line that comes from my son when he was about five or six years old. He said Dad don't you no. I'm an annoying fire. And indeed he is and his father is also evidently and annoy of fire and noyer fire and annoying oil fire. And why why he did people react this way too. The film I it premiers ears at the Venice Film Festival to a Standing Ovation long standing ovation long standing ovation through the entire final credit sequence. I go back to my hotel room and I read the first reviews which are among the nastiest reviews. I have ever read. is one. I imagine you're referencing in particular that I was I'm very partisan on this in the sense that I loved the film and hated all the reviews. The first one that I read was this one. Variety righty which seemed to have had a problem with Steve. Bannon with you it was. It was an extended debate with Steve. Steve Bannon political ideas and didn't engage with the film at all. I mean that seems to. It'd be kind of a common thing. And that seems to be the point of contention here is that people don't like Bannon. I mean this is I mean you blamed it at one point. You blamed the you know. The the difficulty eighteen distribution on David Ramnik explained that well. I wouldn't blame David remnant per se in the sense the claim claim is that REMM nick was out to get me and my movie but in the weeks preceding the Venice Premiere. He says the great term. He D Platform Steve Bannon from the New Yorker Festival her and in doing that and in writing this excuse for why he did it. It was if he gave gave permission to everybody. Oh this is how you do it. You D platform the guy e can't do any damage edge really if he can't be seen or heard well. This is really nut so Two plus years out D platforming bannon really hasn't happened but even if it did do you think that's. That's what's GonNa make us safe. And it's going to protect us from Roy Appearance Of American fascism. That GonNa do the trick. Thank you and your country safe. Well that's the idea right. I mean this isn't this isn't never come up with any of your other films. I mean obviously did. Ah like with like Fred Leuchter. WHO said Holocaust and iron? He's in the film. Denying the Holocaust and I don't recall anyone saying you know early. No you shouldn't put him on the screen because there were plenty of people. There were people who did that. Yes really yes is there. Is there a difference in a degree now. That David Remnant is doing it when people in the media during different. What's different now is? There's the Internet that makes everything different my electric chair Repairman and Holocaust denier. Fred Luter I read about on the front page of guess. What The New York Times blow the full page one but page from one of the New York Times article can capital punishment be humane way? I always describe it as taking the out out of the death penalty. I thought it was really going to hurt. And it turned out to be an enormously pleasant experience. So there's this article about Fred designing lethal injection systems electric chairs Gallos. I guess you would say the whole nine yards at the very end of the article. They mentioned the Holocaust denier and the he contributed to this infamous pamphlet written by a Canadian German Neo Nazi earns Zundel. Yes did six million really die and the combination of electric chair Repairman and Holocaust. Denier convince me movie. You'RE GONNA make in those days. I think today if that article appeared there'd be a hundred and fifty thousand documentary filmmakers all over it back. Then just me me me me me alone nutso.