Mohr, Arkansas, Billy Hallowell discussed on Eric Metaxas
Talking Billy Hallowell. He has a new book out called Playing with Fire. Modern investigation into demons. Exorcises, Um And ghosts, Billy. I, um I never knew what I believed. And then suddenly, you know, 30 years ago, I came to faith. And I knew that this world that I was told the laugh at angels and demons. Were you kidding? That It was really Theo. Only question is What parts of it are really real and what parts of it are. There's exaggeration or there's misunderstanding or whatever. It's an invisible realm. But you know when we're talking about quantum physics, we're talking thinks there are many invisible realms that we investigate and eventually learn about scientifically. And so there's ever any question. About that. But this is around a lot of fuel, so I'm not I'm not going to go there and I think Hey, if it's really I want to go there and so The what I find interesting is people who are Christians themselves arguing about this. For example, you talk about demons, exorcism and ghosts. Of the existence of demons, the ability to cast out demons everything. Most people would have a problem with that. But many people myself included. Get confused. When you get into the realm of ghosts are ghosts. I was taught Oftentimes that ghosts are demons masquerading as disease. Loved ones. Ah, what do you say or what is your investigation let into And what does the Bible say? Yeah, You know that. That's the really interesting piece of this right? Because 43% of Americans, They believe that people can die and come back is go. So that's not just Christine. That's 43 4 out of 10. People believe that and so there's a real strong belief and actually, Mohr. People believe in demons. 45% believe that it's possible that demons exist. So you have this proportion of people again. They're not quite sure many of them what they believe. But they believe that something is happening. And so the way that Hollywood has shaped us is everything is the Exorcist, right? Spinning heads and vomiting and all that craziness. That's how people view exercise. Um, and on the flip side, a lot of people just assume that anything weird going on is ghost. But the experts that I spoke with and these are people who are on the front line. Some of some of these people are people. You know Sam Rodriguez and many others. You know, the discussion was really centered. Mohr on what you just said that these are that there are no people who are dying and remaining, but Find a few experts were open to that. But the idea was that demons will try to trick you into believing their deceased loved one. So you go and you try to communicate with your deceased mother. You go to a medium to a psychic, and you're really not talking to that person. Right? So a lot of this again, it's theory. It's idea. But we have to go back to Scripture. Right when in Scripture did we ever see an example of people coming back to haunt? And I won't. I don't want to spoil it. Now. There are a couple interesting examples in the Bible that people could say, Oh, is that an example of somebody dying and coming back after Jesus's Resurrection, for instance, is one example. There's scripture talking about people coming out of their tombs essentially and walking. It's almost this zombie like description, but that's tied to the resurrection. This amazing event. That has only happened once in human history. That's not the norm. So there are no examples that we have in Scripture of somebody definitively dying and returning on their own without God, bringing them about in some way. We see this with Samuel and Saul. There's another example that I'll give you of of God allowing. We don't know if it's a ghost, The ghost of Samuel or if it's an image that God's allowing salt to see, But so we don't have those examples. So you have to go back to Scripture. And when those experts go back, they don't see an example of a person dying, coming back and haunting. And when you really get into the meat of these stories, it really does seem like you're dealing with these demonic entities. You're not really dealing with that deceased loved one. And so I found that really Wristing because I've always personally wondered are ghosts real and I walked away from the book as a Christian feeling like, Well, no, I have no evidence that I could say, I believe, and I have a whole chapter on ghosts in there that ghosts are actually something that happened in real life. It is, you know, absolutely fascinating to get into this, because if you talk to many people, almost most people they have stories that they say. Well, I don't like to talk about this. I have never talked about this. And they tell you starting you think what is wrong with you? Why aren't you talking about that? That's kind of amazing s u here. Many people have stories of encounters, and I think that the reason that I like to talk about and the reason I'm glad you wrote this book is because God wants everything to come out into the light out into the open because he has answers. So when I think of people who are dealing with demonic oppression there, hearing voices They're dealing with stuff and they're being manipulated by these by these demons. It sounds crazy, but I mean, I've talked to many people have experienced this and there are ways to deal with it ways to pray for them ways to find out how you provided an opening for this demonic presence to come into your life. I was talking to Ah, A young woman about we're growing up. She'd watch turns of horror films on that was one of the ways that the demons came into her life. And as for exorcisms, I mean, I have seen You know, exoticism is kind of a fancy word, casting demons out of people. It's a really thing I've been there when it has happened. I've seen it and it's usually not as scary as you would think. Right. It's kind of basic. The power of God is far more powerful, infinitely more powerful than the power of the demons, and the only difference is do the people. Dealing with this know that, And if the people know it, they have no fear of demons. They know that the demons are swarming, writhing and fear of Jesus Eso again. I'm just I'm just so glad you wrote the book. What is some of the stories that you can share from? Others, one that and if people go and preorder it or even after after preorder, there's gonna be a podcast that playing with fire podcast where I'm talking with some of the people who told me their stories and even some people who are not in the book, but there's one that really stuck out to me. As I was working on the book Last fall, I saw I noticed the story. It was out of Arkansas on it was a local affiliate. And I'm always captivated when a media outlet is willing to actually cover one of these stories, and it's very rare. The Indiana case was a great example. Because everybody covered I don't if you remember, but that was 2013. That story was everywhere. It was in every way. A lot of mainstream outlets covering it was the Indianapolis star that actually broke the story in the first place, and they had enough documentation to do it. So I found this other story. It was in Arkansas. It happened last. It happened last year. It was October. 2019. It was this woman named Amy. And she's telling her story. She was paralyzed from the waist down. And as I'm reading this story, this woman is so brave..