Listen: Gaza, Hamas And Israel discussed on John Batchelor
"Mall. W M A L. Washington comes to talk. Malcolm Hoenlein, Conference of presidents is with me. He's on the phone. He's from Baltimore. I'm in New York. And we go immediately to the crisis in Gaza, HAMAs is at the center of the crisis HAMAs. Now been condemned by a majority of the UN general assembly. That's a good step. But what is to be done to help us on this? We welcome retired Israel Brigadier General Asaf Orion who is now at the Washington Institute as a military, fellow general, very good evening to you. Thank you for this. The crisis in Gaza is as long as my been travelling to Israel since the beginning of this century. I saw the provocations along the berm last the la- my last visit last spring, and I see now that's ex- escalated into the rockets and now the attack tunnels. So is there one remedy here? Or is this going to be a perpetual burden to the state of Israel and to Egypt? Good evening to you. Good evening. Is there a remedy? Well, this is not a silver bullet kind of problem. We're facing a terrorist organization determined to fight Israel at the same time, they're trying to govern Gaza. So the first thing that has to do is to protect and defend its own people and. Kentucky Lous paid to do that without reaching in war, which is on required and unuseful in many ways because when you analyze the Gaza problem going to a full-scale war means that Israel takes over Gaza after getting out of there in two thousand and five. So the the main challenges do find ways to stabilize the situation relief the Gaza population districts and economic dire situation, and that's by quite a wide spectrum. Of financial means economic means of crossings of father means so the military option is always there. It's not always the most desirable. There are so many issues from trinity in Gaza, HAMAs fighting infrastructure. There are there's Egypt. There's the PA Israel HAMAs. What what each of the groups gain or hope to achieve in a longer term deal in the negotiations that we hear about. Hamas would probably like to have free movement in and out be able to govern Gaza on the way to taking over the whole Palestinian system. So actually takeover from FOX and the Palestinian Authority. It would like to be able to build its military force to actually advance. It's a national project. When Goss is a springboard towards the rest of what they call two free Palestine, and that's the destruction of the state of Israel. The PA. Oh, the bus and his government would like to weakened the worst rival. So this is how you understand the budget cuts Tabas performed earlier this year, which actually were the opening shot for for the whole sequence Israel would like to have the security problem from Gaza decrease without letting HAMAs said being too strong. So there is a dilemma, how do you let the relief an economic supplies into Gaza? Without this pouring into the military buildup ending up in rockets and tunnels against Israeli residents and Egypt. We would like to to see this stab Eli and not spillover in Kusei. Deny security issues because HAMAs zone, so no and no one to support the ISIS Sinai province. See state so many moving parts a lot of close. Cutter is playing a useful role years the UN. And so a lot of cooks in this kitchen. Not every dish. It's cool successful. It's a very fine art of of trying to keep it on the situation without to flare up staking us to full esscalation general mass like every other gangster organization needs money. What what it lives on his cash? Wear who was the driver for HAMAs cash. Some of it is coming today from. From cut ours as we say with this consent. Some of it is self taxation offer things coming into Gaza and HAMAs taxes, they incoming commercial stock for whatever. In in Gaza itself is also receiving hunt. Because Iran is is very happy to support whoever's harassing Israel and attacking it from close proximity. And that's about that's about it. Cannot cash can the Iranian cash. Be choked off do does Israel have the authority and the apparatus to do that. We don't it's not a question of authority when we can read the. Regard to Qatar. What is it to gender here? What do they want in the longer term withing besting old? It's money. I know there are people talk about their pro power struggles with Saudi Arabia and with the way he gets Egypt against others. And yet we saw for the first time that I recall these really fascinating here praising Qatar constructive role. Yes, you know, on the personal the personal level in two thousand fourteen when I was still in service cut up played the less useful role during the Gaza campaign and actually put quite interesting obstacles in front of termination mechanism of that conflict. So they're actually responsible for making the contract longer than they should be. But right now Qatar is is actually paying a constructive role. Because it's willing to bring resources other players do not own calculus. He's been able to to be relevant to strike a chord across the Arab scare showing that they're helping the Palestinians, and they have been soaking Muslim Brotherhood and HAMAs for some time now, so he's also who serves their support to that camp. But definitely in in the with a lack of other Gulf players. Contributing to stabilize ation except the Arabia in the last week. Supporting unwrap for fifty million. So Qataris is playing quite a significant role here in Israel sees it for the positive because it seeks ability de attack tunnels that were part of the operation these last days. Hamas. They're exposed they're attacked. They're taking down HAMAs spills again is this is this the cycle. We're in general without a solution tax them take them down from us three bills. We're talking about two different area with HAMAs until now the idea tore down and destroyed. Seventeen tunnels that came from Gaza into Israel and by the end of next year. The idea would have built an underground obstacle system in early warning system. So this problem is will probably be behind us in a significant way. In the last days what we are hearing these actually attack tunnel expose attack tunnel system exposed in the Lebanon area. And this is not the HAMAs handiwork, but he's about Las. So they're devoting a lot of time money and manpower in trying to create inroads into Israel, and they're finding that. Israeli intelligence dominance and technological superiority and both in in using those means roll back significantly. So they're actually now holding their hats and saying well, these assets we lost and collectively we need to be careful that this disruption, doesn't they escalated needlessly, Malcolm. Quickly to two things one. Are you suggesting or do you think there is a coordination between escalations in the north and south or just they operate independently with some communication and did the recent events in Gaza vis-a-vis, these rallies that were caught did that have any longer term impact? On on."