David Brooks, Diana Anderson, Kevin Hart discussed on With Friends Like These

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The. Diana. Welcome to the show. I'm glad to be here. Diana Anderson is a freelance journalist author and activist in women's issues. She's written a bunch of different things, including for places like cosmopolitan rolling. Stone establishment advice her first book is damaged goods new perspective on Christian Purdy, but we are here to discuss a very timely topic. The name of the book is problematic. How toxic culture is destroying feminism? So this oughta be good. Yeah. No. Usually, I'm pretty happy. When we're not like a media early like pegged to the news cycle. But this happens to be taking place the same week that David Brooks uses op Ed column to upon about his issues with call culture. Which if I may summarize I am not exaggerating essentially led to let him to believe that call culture divides us into binary groups, which will be to things like the Rwandan genocide. He's the one who brought up the Rwandan genocide. Yeah. That's one of those like he went to the exact extreme that. I don't think is justified. Right. So what I would like you to sort of do maybe be helpful is give a deficient of culture. And then maybe we can talk about just where your theory might lie short of Rwandan genocide. So what is your definition of culture Colo culture is when somebody who is often in a prominent position either feminism or a celebrity of some kind or somebody who is a politician makes a mistake. They screw up in some way, they say something weird or wrong or something that is very often at something that's mimicking racism, or it's accidents antisemitic and stuff, and I say mimicking an accident in ways to say that it's not necessarily intent. What happens is celebrity is cancelled that person is no longer part of feminism you have to append their name with something. That's like, oh, this is Kevin Hart. He made those jokes about beating up his gay son sort of thing, and and that sort of call out culture becomes the scarlet letter of who that person is now in feminist circles. And so it becomes about who you can interact with who you can whose art and content you can consume and things like that in this goal of looking for a perfect feminism. So I have some questions problems. So one issue. I think is that your definition is is maybe different than Brooks's. It's definitely different than the example that Burks us, and I guess when trying to draw attention to is that people are kind of debating call out culture used scare quote with my hands there. And I I think that there's not a lot of precision about what that means. Because for instance, like Brooks Cassim to confli something that was a serious accusation of violence against one person. And in the second example was someone that had written a Starkey most and you can debate whether the snarky Poche should've gotten the same kind of censure as someone who's accused of sexual violence, but those are two very different Yang's. Yeah. I called up for as to be called out for maybe harass people feels different than calling someone out for maybe making an inopportune or immature. Yeah. And so we're both things or are you talking about one or the other? I'm talking about the heart a little bit different than for instance. When examples in your book is how Jessica Jones show had like a sort of fat phobic. Yes. Longline and having a line in your television show that is somewhat fat phobic seems very different than making jokes about your beating up your son. So where is the where is? Yep. More definition. A large part of that is that the ways in which we talked about Colo Colo culture in how we define it tend to flatten it out where every single sin is the same. So what I tried to get in the book is that each individual in particularly when consuming art has to decide what's appropriate. Where's the line for them? As of end that we as feminists need to be aware of how we're flattening the dialogue. Tough especially when we quite something like Kevin Spacey getting arrested for sexual assault with the guy from guardians of the galaxy..

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