A new story from All In with Chris Hayes
Joined by Michael mcfaul former ambassador Russia and Ambassador Nancy Soderberg former deputy assistant at the NFC NFC Ambassador Soda talked to You. I one thing that comes out in these transcripts. Is that the folks that are piecing this together whether it's few and a hill who is at the NFC see we're used to work or it's Lieutenant Colonel Vinson or others. They're not getting the full story because someone is hiding the ball from them because the people that are running the rogue operation are wise enough to understand that what they are trying to do is probably elicit an inappropriate. You get that sense from what we've learned. That's exactly what happened. The career Foreign Service officers were shoved aside the National Security Council process which would have the experts make a recommendation to the president and then the president would agree to it and the career people follow it out sometime. There's a political appointee involved in this but present shoved that aside and had Rudy Giuliani on in some Russian oligarchs and Ukrainian corrupt goons are actually now under indictment in the US. Justice System Tryin Ryan pull a fast one on the US government and extort the president of Ukraine and the difference here for the president is. He's always been able to control his narrative. He's brilliant a showman and a few skating. What really happened? It's always worked for him and what he's finally only a up against is in a career bureaucrats who are patriots telling the truth and he is not going to be able to run away from the truth and all of those around around ten. We're going to have to make a decision. Are they going to have to justify. It was okay to hold up aid to the president's gain or are they going to come out and tell the truth and say no no. I'm actually not on board with that. Mick Mulvaney Giuliani William Bar. What's he doing now? All of these people need to realize realized the truth is something they cannot run away from anymore Mick Mulvaney I want to get to him in a second but ambassador mcfaul I read a story today about Ah Republicans in the House workshop in their defense is the president and one of the things that work shopping just you know it is a hard job and I. I don't envy them. I and they're you know blue-sky here run up the flagpole see what catches win and they've they've decided that maybe one idea is it like everyone was freelancing Gordon Sean Lennon Giuliani Mick Mulvaney whether the president but you know and this was actually defense that worked for Reagan Iran-contra Right. It never actually got the president in Iran Contra but Ronald Reagan number called up the ayatollah. Said we're going to sell you some weapons so we can go fund the contras like the phone call makes it impossible for this not to touch the president right. Yeah Chris I'm really glad you're pivoting back to the transcript because that's exactly right. It's clear as day. I remember the days before whether he's going to release that. I kept kept saying on television programs like yours. There's no way they'll ever release a transcript of a presidential conversation. And then when he did I was shocked at what was is there and I don't think you need to know anything. More than just two things. Just the transcript and then the text messages that we know from the three Amigos that were released when Kurt Volker testified. Because those two things show two things that you underscored I just WanNa keep keep making it simple one this. This is what they're asking for the quid pro quo and two. There was a long period that they were doing it both before. And after the call to try to make this quid pro quo. Oh Happen Ambassador Soderberg. You mentioned Mick Mulvaney today. He was subpoenaed to appear about five minutes before his appearance. The White House said he would not be appearing because absolute immunity but the two transcripts released today. Do implicate him in something key here. which is that? He was the one who gave the order to uphold the aid. That of course is the thing. They're dangling over Ukrainian government do you think he is going to be able to avoid having to account for what he did throughout throughout this entire process. No all of these guys are going to have to lawyer up and ultimately decided they're gonNA lie for the President of the United States and go to jail or or are they going to come around like Sunland did the other day in and fess up to what exactly happened. Remember Mick Mulvaney is on the record saying in a press conference get over it. This is what we do all the time. He tried to escape that. But I think all of these all of these people are going to have to recognize that they go into have to choose or they're going to try and cover for the president or face their own lawyers and what's going on in in Congress the truth we know what happened and I think the latest of China throw. The deputies are under the bus as if they weren't working for the president of the United States is is going to be a twenty four hour trial balloon. That's GONNA rapidly burst. They're gonNA just keep trying to partly because the president is controlling this narrative and it's changing being daily so the poor guys who are trying to implement this scheme and whatever. The latest President Narrative is are you know it's like a keystone cops circus. Because if it weren't so serious and I think they need to. They need to start thinking about. What is the future for their own careers? And what culpability are they gonNA face personally for participating in this game and it's all going to come out and I think you'll see people starting to peel off ambassador mcfaul another argument that I've seen and I saw floated today I think actually by former UN ambassador Nikki Haley in an interview that she just gave. And I've seen other people say is basically well. It didn't work right in the end they didn't get the CNN interview where Zilenski announces a big new investigation and the aid was released now. The aid was only released under congressional pressure the whistle blower but I wonder if someone who worked as an ambassador. We're inside government like how seriously you take the argument that they failed in extorting. Ukrainian president.