Jack Barsky, FBI, Youtube discussed on Unstructured Interviews
Before we get started. I just wanted to tell you that. Today's interview was also a video interview that can be found on my youtube channel. Eric Hunley I also have left streams? And if you listen to this the date it comes out my livestream later today is with Thomas Becora of the CIA. If you don't catch it live that's fine. You can always catch a repeat. I have others like Rob Andrew Rica the FBI as well as Dana Ridenour and Jerry Williams also of the FBI and on the channel. You will find some great video interviews like Henrik sexiness. I have a livestream with him as well. He is known as the Darren Brown of Sweden. And I'm really proud to say coming extremely soon. I Have Jack Barsky. Jack is the undercover KGB OPERATIVE. Who lived in the United States? For ten years. He will be on the livestream and he will be able to answer your questions in the chat now for today. I bring you and modest shea. Ou'd and we discuss workplace communication. My name is Erica. And this is unstructured or we have dynamic informal conversations with some amazing people. Today we are joined by a fantastic person. I'm going to try the name probably mutilate it but an much and Monte out. Marta and Marci out and yes I will be cutting head any matt. How're you doing today? I'm good and I'm impressed because it's such a terrible name to pronounce if you're not from the Netherlands. Sorry let's say you did your best but you can always call me and during this conversation because you have this tongue twister going on Seoul I will. Yeah that's that's Nice isn't it? Yeah no and your specialty is going into corporations and exploring or working with would it be workplace conflict or just workplace communication. I would say communication because if you just say conflict that's not always the case. Sometimes it's people will want to be more self assured all they are working in a team and they want to do better so I would say communication although that is very broad We always say it's about behavior so we come in businesses until about behavior. Okay and to put everybody on track. You were recommended to me by the Great Joe. Navarro who is possibly the best in the world at body language if not. He's in the top five and of course he is going to your conference and gum curse had nagging him mutual friend of ours so definitely enjoy that but body language then and that's something I cover lot is part of what you explore what I'm interested in though and I have found that we worry about body language and we say okay. The arms closed off. Or are they doing this? Or they're scratching their nose. That's cool but what do we do with it question? Well let me start with the ONS cross because every time I start election and Joe will say the same. It is always seen as A. We know that isn't it means. Somebody's closed off. You know and then everybody thinks. Hooray we know something about body. Well let me say I. It's it's cold a south hug and that will really says something. So it's not. It's not like a shield. It's nuts we could. We tried to comfort yourself all the time. So that's one thing I always want to address and secondly it is exactly what you say. We have to look at everything. It is not just one tiny thing here or there. Whatever you always have to look at the whole body would also and this is why I love doing. My job is everything that is influencing the situation so The interaction between you and me is already different than when you have an interaction with somebody else and you might have the same body language but when the other person is different. There's an interaction going on. And there is different body language going on and then you also have the setting so to make a long story short. What can we do with? It is analyzed can use to analyze but then you have to adapt it to the situation because if the situation is going fantastic well while then. Nobody's in trouble and we love it but usually or you can say. Sometimes in business situations there carries off what goes wrong and that is fantastic if we can read the body language but also adjusted now. I've had a lot of people on chase. Hughes is a great example of it and what he recommends and others is to just spend a little time. You've got to find a baseline. Is that what you do? Because you can't read somebody if you don't know what they act like normally. Yeah but I absolutely I fully agree on and what I would like to add is also your own baseline because what we do a lot. So when you talk about non verbal communications a lot of people always focus of the other person but for what I try to do with. My business is making people aware of their own body language. How do you do this? When do you feel comfortable? So when you're in a situation and you kind of realize hey him doing something that I normally don't do then you can use it. Oh maybe I'm uncomfortable so I would definitely go for baseline but mostly your own baseline knowing how you will you will be here is and what your preferences. This interesting knows that. Get into Marine and trying to shall we say approach people in a mutually comfortable manner? I don't I don't know if I'm working that well but some people are Dutch and a bit more direct or they may be more flowery language or they may be more introverted again. Is that something that you need to look at it in yourself to to kind of maybe calibrate with up to get the fantastic would think it's very important if you calibrate Well as Joan of are also says a I also teach that is? It's about comfort for both people so fully mirror. Somebody you see people doing this. Sometimes after cools over know about mirroring and the in order to try to exactly what the other person does that is not authentic. So it's not aligned with yourself if you are able to come to this level where you mirror the behavior of the other inundated also incentive for you and also comfortable for you then you see that the confidence is going and that's really a three helpful specially business situation so. I think we only had that awkward situation like this is not this is not aligned. Yeah well this starts to get into the other subjects and I think I've spoken to you in the past about how I feel that reading body language and persuasion and even marketing are all part of a spectrum and the calibration the marine and the comfort level is it sometimes a technique to sort of Mir and then start shifting so it's like follow follow lead. Not Quite sure how you soon. Maybe you could elaborate like you. Start to get a rhythm. It's Sorta like when people are sitting together. Their breath will start to line up overtime. Even the heartbeats can align go and and try to be receptive and open to the other person and in speaking in the same manner and then kind of start shifting your behavior so you follow them to sort of log into it and then you shift at like a persuasion techniques almost into hypnosis stuff but I didn't know if that was something that you practice are observed I think there's so many different techniques people use and what you see is at with alignment thousand ways and especially for instance if you think about Chris Voss when he expecting Goshi those kind of things really important but if what I always try to stick it back to who are we and we are having a conversation and if you feel comfortable and I feel calmed comfortable we can achieve things and very very simplified but if you if you think about it too much like oh now. I'm going to adjust this. I don't think it works for people. I think when people really start to connect with our own behavior and observe and see how they can make somebody feel comfortable without kind of acting. Because that's a risk in these Things when we talk about nonverbal communication and alignment and influencing others but if it's genuine but also with comfort for yourself on the others I think then what you said is is happening. Maybe naturally no that makes and maybe some of us being led him because of interrogation and things of that sort. That's different. I think especially when you read all the books about interviewing techniques in situations where you really want to extract something on the high pressure high stress. That is so much different than you. And I having compensation because we're trying to align here as well in our with a video coal. It's still so different than we would be together. Really would focus on each other in non villa communication. That's a masterful segue that you just did. Because one of my questions is how do we establish communication relationships over video which everybody in the world is doing? At the moment I heard the day somebody said When not made for two D communication and the presence of would make for Three D. Communication? I would like to say we're made for forty communication. You know you have these movies whether it's four D. Where you can see everything but also this smell and movement and everything and with a lacking of that. It's really difficult for people these days to actually come across in the way that they want to come across but also that the alignment is so much harder because We try and it's. It's nice that we have this equipment to communicate in a different way than just a phone but it's difficult. It's very difficult so trying to use as much as you see me. You stand very still you see me working with my hands. All the time which could be distracting. But I'm so used to emphasize you know we needed talking. This helps to make a point. Well it's how you naturally are comfortably communicating. Which is which is perfect and I have A. I don't know if it's been written somewhere but have a theory that there are three people in the conversation and what I mean by that is. Each person has their own elements. But the two people together that particular chemistry's reflecting out a third entity if you will because you talk to your husband and a different way than you talk to your boss. You talked to this percent different way than somebody else. And the way to people interact is creating another energy and then is the third. This is interesting. I've never heard this before. What would you say the third Hesam Avenue the third persons like a reflection? Like if you're on the outside looking at them you see you see the other but then you see the interactions between them. And that's like a third entity. I don't know how to explain them. You know this is stuff that is coming up with completely ridiculous. No no no no no let me. Nothing is ridiculous and because who knows that might be the case it's It's actually we could try to the what would be interesting if he videotape people. You see people. Here's a great example. You've got the workplace environment. Now you have to employee's and they'll have a lot of chemistry and when they are together. They're both their chemistry rises. And you feed off of this energy because you know they're just going back and forth and riffing on each other and it's almost like a a magical thing going forward then you get somebody else who walks in the room completely toxic to one or the other and the interaction between those two people both of them to become something completely different and then you're drying energy off of this negative energy between the two of them. That's the third. I never looked at it that way. I think I always a think if what I understand is if you can when you walk into a room and you can feel this tension going on but I kind of try to see.