United States, Donald Trump and United Kingdom discussed on Monocle 24: The Big Interview


And services and people moving around the world and ideas, and we create global security and we build global technology that everyone will be better. And the fact is that globalist are much better off as a consequence of this, and lots of other people in our own countries are not, and that is absolutely. It's not the potential failure globalism it's felt the ideology is bankrupt and as someone who wants globalism to work with someone who believes that we are actually just one group of humans. We shouldn't be demonizing the other. I, I have to recognize it so that I wrote this book for that reason. I wrote this book in part because it's not okay in this environment to pretend that it's fine. In the is this an can it be? Would you hope that it's taken as a prime fixing this problem? Because you return to this theme in the book democracies erode. Does this feeling particularly look at the UK? And obviously in particular, the United States with the election of Trump is feeling. The game is the game is rigged against me as a another member of the electorate. Can it be part of a private address that unto fix the process? Or is it about saying this hasn't worked? And there are echoes of the fact people said, oh, will you know communism isn't flawed, fundamentally is just always done wrong. We that similar moment of reckoning when it comes to the political movement that is globalism. So it's not actually something I believe is gonna put us on the road to fixing it because we're not there yet. I wish we were, and I certainly talk in the conclusion, some of the things, some of the experiments that are being tried could eventually parv solution, but no, no, it's much more problematic than that right now. Key leaders in. In the west are not even willing to accept that. This is a primary challenge. I mean, in the UK right now, you have a whole bunch of people. They're just fighting Brexit all the time, right. And in the United States, people that just fighting Trump all the time. The idea is the problem is not structural. It is Trump right, and if you get rid of Trump, then it'll be okay. You know, it's after two thousand and financial crisis. We had the Occupy Wall street movement, and then it was gone and it's as if it never happened. Right. And we didn't fix any of the problems. So I hope that this book at least gets people in positions of Power to start addressing the fact that the problem is not with the Trump supporters. The problem is not with the people that voted for Brexit in bothered vote. The problem is not with the people that voted for AFDC in Germany or Northern League and five star moving Italy. The problem and the complicity is with the political. Establishment, the business leaders, the public intellectuals, the media leaders, the bankers who have allowed this to get to the point that large parts of our own population would come to the conclusion that either they wanna check out because they're completely disenfranchised. Nothing they can make a difference or that they want to vote for people that will break the system. Right? I mean, Jeremy Corbyn is increasingly likely at least a coin flip. I think to become prime minister of the UK now we're not talking about Brexit here, right? We're talking about someone who is not a bad version of Tony Blair. We're talking about someone who's a good version of Trotsky. Okay. I think that the idea that that could happen in the United Kingdom should be slapping you in the face really hard, and yet it doesn't seem to be because every day it's just all about Brexit all the time. Right. I mean, how can you say that this book is going to help people fix it? When. They're not willing to even identify the fact that the problem is the fact that you have this large number of people in the country that are prepared to do anything to say about enough. I've had enough in the United States right now. A sixth of young people are prepared to admit to upholster, which means the numbers probably while higher that they would rather have military leadership in the US than a democracy. And the only reason they would say that is because they think they don't live in democracy. They think the system is rigged against them, and if we don't fix that, if we don't dentist that as the problem, I am just not willing to stand up with everyone else and say, Trump is the problem. I am mortified that I live in a country where in the most important election of my lifetime more people didn't bother to vote than voted for either Trumper Hillary because they thought the options were so bad because if there's nothing that could be done that would matter for them given up. The gave up or they've Oded for Trump who was by far the least capable person to run for office in my lifetime. You don't blame come for that. You don't blame the Trump voters for that Jim Komi. Right. He's been all over the media last couple of weeks. You know, no higher loyalty has book former head of the FBI fired by Donald Trump. He comes out and he says, Donald Trump is morally unfit to be president, and he's making it very clear that we all knew that. So the people that voted for Trumper all complicit and therefore something's wrong with them morally. And you know what, I think something's more wrong with calling me morally. Then them because Komi was in a position, has been in a position to actually do something. And frankly, so have I the fact that I have gone this long without writing this book isn't indictment, right? I should've been writing about this soon as occupy was over and we didn't do a damn thing. I should written this book, but. When you get to the point that we see what's happening in all of our countries, there's only one advanced liberal democracy doesn't have this problem. There's only one and it's Japan. And you know why? Because in Japan, the population is shrinking so much that the working class, even though the economy is kind of stagnant, feels like they're doing a lot better and Japan, there's no 'immigration. So this note hate does versus right, all Japanese and Japan. They don't send the military all around the world to fight their poor people and the rest and comeback broken because you know what they barely have a military in the constitutionally incapable of being a part of these coalitions and technology doesn't really drive Japanese apart because there are homogeneous people. And because again, the population shrinking, so no one's getting this place. The reason why Japan doesn't have a problem with globalism speech. Japan has fundamentally rejected Global's along time ago that should tell us something D. Deeply disturbed about our model, and you talk about greater inequality. And in the book you painting this picture of some fundamental problems that require really faith might have systematic and systemic changes. I guess a reader of this book and a listener to your wise words could be forgive him saying, this is pretty depressing. I don't feel about the future and I don't really know how to express that. I don't feel I can do the ballot box. We've already talked about. I don't feel this forums for doing it. Do we need to sometimes take a look at the bigger picture and say, actually, there are a lot of profound positive things in the world is decipher happy time to be alive or do we risk if we do that glossing over the nature of these problems in the way you've just described? We do risk it. I am a product of the American dream to accomplish what I've been able to -ccomplish because of my mother coming from nothing with no money and no context. No access to the network is. Extraordinary, and I'm enormously appreciate that. I'm a very optimistic person. We could spend an entire hour going through Steven pinker and talking about all the wonderful things that we're living longer, and you know, sort of we have tailoring the genome so that we can have medicine that actually doesn't feel like the eighteenth century and all this kind of stuff. Great stuff. But I'm a political scientist, and I will tell you that our political system, the one that we really believed was gonna give the best opportunities for us for freedom of individual expression for treating Uman beings has all the same is broken and we know it. When we look deep down, we know it and we're not fixing it. And I think that if we lower ourselves to just focus on all the great stuff out there, we're gonna lose some things that are essential about who we are. We want to live and you know, in the fifties and sixties. A lot of American kids that went to grade school memorized the UN charter. Fundamental declaration of human rights essential because that was something we put together the Americans leading globalism one unity. Can you imagine the backlash if you found out that the public school today in the United States was forcing was forcing their children to memorize globalist propaganda. That's a real problem that so many things are going in the right direction right now, but the politics are not. And the history of our species tells you that when the politics go in the wrong direction, even if there's Penn tastic wealth and abundance, a lot of people gonna die and a lot of people are going to be behind bars, and some of those bars will be real. Some of those bars will be virtual. The quote that I like the most in this book comes from WIlliam Gibson, the science fiction writer who says that the future is already here just unevenly distributed. And I think when you look at Israel Palestine. And you see that Israel is by far the best government in not only the Middle East, but I mean one of the most effective in all of the planet, anti-corruption free media, independent judiciary. Great rule of law as long as you're not Palestinian. And for decades, we had some of the smartest minds in the west saying that if Israel did not get a two state solution in place that that was going to be the end of Israel and they were wrong because the Israelis have figured out how to wall off the Palestinians and give them no opportunities. And it's gotten so bad that the Palestinians are now throwing themselves at these walls in Gaza literally, they're doing it while I'm talking right now and they're doing it despite the fact that the Israeli defense forces will shoot with lethal force if they try to breach the walls because they feel like there is no other way because they've been lied to by their own government and the Palestinia. Authority by the Israelis by the Americans, by the Europeans by the international court of Justice by the UN they just feel like there's no hope. And I think that if that can happen there, if we don't address this, that will happen here and that is not a distorted because it's already here in Burma could speak to you about this day, but just pick up on. You mentioned the sort of your personal experience the journey you've been on. Do you think that a youngster growing up in the states today, there's extraordinary statistics in your book about the potential cost of sending higher education in the US. If it continues, I think is a six percent year-on-year increase could see a a private undergraduate degree running Hoffa million dollars by within ten years or so. That feels like that's going to make that evermore prohibitive. Of course forever more people. Could he youngster born in Massachusetts, as you described the path that you yourself of, what do you think that's almost becoming an impossibility in? Does that speak to this erosion? Not just of American. Liberal democratic values of that of the American dream. I mean, San Francisco just in the past couple of months has put together a plan to give community college education for free to anyone that lives in that was since I've written the book. So it's not in there, but that's a big deal. That's a big city. And I think there are other places that will do similar sorts of things, and you know, Gates Foundation announced sort of huge amount of money for underprivileged kids to get scholarships and the rest. But these are all targeted. If you ask me about the United States as a whole and the average American kid growing up, even the projects grew up in the vast majority of those kids, some very bright kids, but the institutions were broken and if it wasn't for my mom, no way, no way, despite everything. And as much as we want to say that the United States is about you built it and you pull yourself up new bootstraps. And we have a country that supports entrepreneurship and we do. It's really easy to start your own company, but you have to get to the point where you could think about that. You have to get to the point where you've got a mentor or two or three. You have to get a point where you can believe that you're going to have the tools that will allow you to do something better in Burma. Fantastic species permits currencies, local. The

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