Jonathan Phang, Hungary, Uc Irvine discussed on Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe
Like an irregular regular atom decaying suddenly. There's this weird new kind of particle coming out. Yeah that's precisely what they're suggesting and remember that to be consistent. Listen with everything else we've ever seen. You'd have to be pretty several if this was happening. A lot or shooting out some really powerful raise tapping really often than we would have noticed already. We studied atomic nuclei in great detail. We have a pretty good understanding of how this works. So for this to evade all other previous experiments it have to be pretty subtle not something in particular to the beryllium or the lithium. It's just something that nobody that had flown under people's reader is not like these They were taking like super exotic matter and doing experiment with experimented with and they found something. It's like they were doing something. Pretty what sounds pretty regular bler. Run of the mill physics. Yeah and what they did last weekend. This new result that just came out is that they reproduced the same results using helium William so instead of beryllium they excited helium to a new state and when they saw a decay. They found a few of these examples of this ex- particle that look just like in the beryllium really MD case like helium. Helium balloons have some sort of secret particles in them. But you know if it's real and it's actually they're just turning inning into electrons and positive ions and you can't tell the difference so if this thing is real and then yet could be happening around us all the time but it wouldn't make much difference to your world. I mean the world with four forces or five forces doesn't look very different to you. And what did they say in the paper. Are they just saying like hey we looked better than everybody else else and so we founded or are they saying you know. Nobody's looked in this range before or are they saying this is an interaction like a reaction that not had studied closely before to see it when nobody else has ever seen this before. Only this one group from Hungary has seen as before now other people. I'll have done nuclear physics experiments. Other people have looked beryllium. Other people have looked a helium. Nobody's ever seen this before. Now when they put out the paper in two thousand sixteen. Nobody really paid attention. They were like Whatever interesting but it's sort of in conflict with other results because nobody's ever seen this before but then a group of theorists he's here at UC Irvine? Actually Jonathan Phang intimidate. They read this paper and I thought that's interesting. Can we find a way to explain this result in terms terms of new particle. That also doesn't break all the other results that we've seen. Can we find a reason. Why all those other experiments wouldn't have seen this particle yet? They looked at it and Jonathan's a friend of ours rate. We your friend of Jonathan and I've met Jonathan. He's been in our videos that we've made for you to before which is allow us like. I saw the article article and then I saw his name is a would guy because it was his paper that got this group a lot of attention they publish paper. Nobody really paid attention. But then Jonathan showed there result could be consistent with a new particle and also be consistent with all the other experiments essentially. Jonathan found a way to explain away all the other results. Because all the other experiments have slightly different configurations or use a different energy range or different kind of particle a different kind of detector. SA- Jonathan found a theory that explained his new result old and also is consistent with everything we've seen before and that is what made it exciting. I feel like that's really gutsy. You know like if you read a paper with a crazy idea that I probably clearly sounds like they just made a mistake to be like nope. I'm going to sit down and I'm going to double down and find theory that might explain this weird circumstance. Yeah I think it actually sort of went the opposite direction. They were like well. Here's a crazy result. It's ruled out by all these other experiments right. Let's do the calculation. Let's estimate let's see if these other experiments actually are in conflict with this one or if we can find a way to wiggle this one out I think it started as an exercise and then they realized Hon. There really is an opening opening there. There's a way that you can explain this new result that doesn't conflict with the other ones and that's when they got excited you mean. Kind of Jonathan was sitting on a Sunday. And he's like I can do the crossword puzzle today or I could just You know pass them time working out semi quesions for this experiment. I don't know I think it was an exercise. At the time he was working with his post. Doc Flip Neto. WHO's also a friend of ours on the podcast and is now a professor at UC Riverside and they were just sort of working through this as an exercise and then discovered hape? Hey maybe this overlooked piece of evidence from Hungary is actually evidence for a new force of nature. That was an exciting moment for them interesting too. If he hadn't done that then people might just ignore this experiment. Yeah Yeah I think so. I think it was the attention of this. Frankly World Class Group of theorists and is reasonable the argument for how it might be a big discovery that pointed the world's scientific attention to this group in Hungary. All right well. We'll have to ask Jonathan over a beer or something. How he he got in a highly funded article and what made him get interested in but Yeah let's talk about the result itself whether it's significant and whether it it is actually a new force of nature but first let's take a quick break. Hi Hi this is Daniel from Daniel and hallway. Explain the universe. The future is closer than you think. And it all starts in the palm of your hand you may have heard the news. Five G. is coming but what does that really mean. How will it impact me in this new iheart series this time tomorrow presented by t immobile for business join hosts ause will Lucien and care price as they walk us through a mobile revolution? That will change the way we interact with the world around us from Um environmental science to law enforcement. Entertainment Healthcare and travel innovation is coming. Join them as they explore how. This revolution could impact your life and give you new ways to connect and engage. This time tomorrow is now available on the iheartradio APP or wherever you listen to podcasts Daniels. So have they found a a new fifteen fours or four and a half force of the universe. I would say it's way too early to tell. I mean first of all I don't I think we can even really conclusively say that. They have seen in new particle. And then there's the follow up question of if it is a new particle isn't a new force. Also so you have doubts about or you want to see more evidence about whether or not the even found anything and then there's actual deeper questions about whether it actually means there's a new force that's right. This result result only comes from one team this team in Hungary and before you really believe that a park will exist. Do you want to see it replicated by an independent team you want to see another group. It has a different setup and maybe different potential biases make the same measurements. And see the same thing I mean. If it's a real thing nature you should be able to see it more than one place. It's like when we discovered cold fusion that group in Utah other groups immediately went out to see if they could reproduce it and nobody could which is how we knew that it was bogus. This and that doesn't mean necessarily malfeasance. You know doesn't mean that they're lying to us but it's a there's a lot of ways to accidentally buys your results or introduce mistake and that's why we crosscheck things and science. So where are we now. Have people tried to replicate it or has nobody tried. And so that's why it's an open question. It doesn't sound like a super difficult experiment isn't McGee Tony. Billions of dollars for it. You don't need billions of dollars. You need some sort of particle accelerators leaders. You can get these protons up to the right energy and then you need a detector that can transform this particle into your positron-electron pair and measure it precisely and the also just need time and interest and so there are a few groups out there interested in potentially reproducing this measurement using slightly different equipment. But nobody's done it yet and until that happens happens. I don't think anybody in science is really going to take this result seriously. Well it's kind of a weird incentive right because like if I'm a physicist what's my incentive wanted to being the second guy who confirms I guys refers girls or Gals at you know what I mean like. It's like it's a weird thing to jump jump into you know if you WanNa get all the glory and if you disprove it then you would be probably wouldn't get much glory either. That's an interesting question. Anything that goes to she liked. Who would get the credit for this kind of discovery? And should it go to the Hungarian folks who go to Jonathan and those folks recognizing the importance of this should he go do a new new team. That verifies that you'd you split it three ways. I'm not sure he'd get me for having a podcast about it a mature and you know there's also a question two sort of priorities and credibility. You know everybody out. There's a lot to do. In Science. And a long list of experiments they'd love to get done and give an infinite funding sure. I'd like to you see this thing happened but you know. Is it the most important thing that these other groups can be doing with their time and also. Does anybody really believe this result on this Hungarian in group has sort of A. I mean there are whispers in hallways and physics departments about a checkered past from this group claiming discoveries which didn't pan out. Oh man.