Adobe, China, Persia discussed on Full Stack Radio

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For sponsoring this episode back to the show and one thing we're considering that I think is still a good option as China figure out a way to fit it into something. That's more like the sketch pricing model pay for sketch or I think I do but I thought it was like a one time thing. It's a one time but like the way they do. It is what they used to do. Is it was like I don't remember the price. It's like seventy nine bucks or something you pay seventy nine bucks and that gets you like a sketch to license and then once sketched three comes out like you can upgrade for forty nine bucks or something the standard old school software yeah but they changed that so basically now instead of like you're buying like a major version or whatever you're paying for a year of updates so you pay. The seventy nine bucks you own it. You get like updates any updates released within in the first year that you paid you get and then after that like you can't download any new stuff but you can always download the latest version that you had a license for and you can use it perpetually. It's not like it's GonNa stop working like Adobe. Stuff does for example Gotcha and I think that makes sense 'cause like their rationale for it is basically by doing it the other way they're sort of incentivized like hold back like good features and that kind of bundle them into the next major versions they can convince people to buy whereas this way they can just focus focus on some feature when like nailed it just release it and like some people are in the cycle where they get it like. Some people are early in the cycle. Some people are late in the cycle. Everyone's just kind of on their own rhythm for them and no one's getting a raw into the deal where it's like. Oh I bought sketchy to two months before sketch three came out and now again but someone else has been using it for three years ninety ninety mean and I've always thought that seemed like a pretty pretty fair way to do things like I feel like in kind of like incentivizes both sides sides of the transaction the right way like the people building the tool there obviously if they want people to keep upgrading they have to keep delivering new value and the people on the other side can't just like expect to get stuff for free forever and complain like Oh. I paid this one time price and that was when Mac. Os Ten point two came out and our on ten point fourteen in all of a sudden. It doesn't work like you'd better fix that you know what I mean. Do you think you'll have enough upgrade upgrade leverage. Do they mean like you to Java script. That was part of this. I feel like there'd be more like we gotta keep up with the browsers. Here's the thing and stuff breaks. Whatever bugs I think like the way I've been thinking about it is that it's almost more like it's not that big of a deal. People don't upgrade because I think of it in. My head is really just like a one time purchase but I don't want to have to like keep delivering stuff for a free forever. I want there to be like some incentive for people to like keep paying if we are going to keep working on it so maybe maybe that means like yeah we released like this. I kind of release and it comes with a bunch of stuff but then maybe we spend like three months working on like sort of like as an extension for a specific acidic category like maybe okay we're going to build a bunch of ecommerce stuff specifically now and then like the e commerce pack comes out and if someone's licenses lopped and that's interesting to them then maybe they'll pay like whatever the fifty percent kind of renewal fees or whatever it he till. I keep getting the new stuff they don't then like that's cool too because in my head. I'm really just thinking of it as like a one time purchase anyways but I just don't want to feel like a one time purchase with like a perpetual obligation on your yeah yeah yeah exactly I think that's it is a little bit more complicated. I mean that's how we help spot forever. That's was the model you own license license and runs forever. How people would like version two running older number and then just never paid for like back then you would call it like support and upgrades grades. If you WanNa for upgrades then you pay this fee yearly but if you don't pay it like you still use software but you don't get upgrades he'll so that was including women like minor version upgrades selective two point seven came out and they were like out of their cycle than they wouldn't get. It got up so I mean it's very different type of product though so I don't know so subscription I actually aligns customer interest better with a pure software product because when Dan you stop performing whatever capacity that means whether updating or bugs or whatever and the customer has like a more sort of direct director relationship with that but and you you you benefit from now on. You're also are can be hurt by if you're not holding up your end of the deal a software. I think this is a little bit different though so I don't know. I don't know it's hard to say I feel like sketches. Something somebody opens up and uses everyday yeah totally really so. I think it's different. I think the value is definitely different but I guess in my head. I'm thinking I like the idea of being a one time feeling thing. We're like. You're not like on the hook to pay a subscription fee because I think I think a subscription thing is wrong if we're just like delivering a component gallery salary component library whatever you wanNA call it right. It depends on the price. I think to some degree share I mean I think the other element was like when I was originally thinking. Maybe we could do some subscription thing I was thinking I don't want to do a monthly option at all because they would have to be like meowing bucks a month and now all of a sudden we've we've done like a year of work and someone can just get all of it in one month and cancel right and people do that for like educational stuff to kind of. Jeffrey bills with that problem like someone signs up for Claire cast grabs all stuff. They WANNA bail whatever but to me. That's kind of like a signed that like even trying to do that model. It's just kind of like not properly aligned with the the values delivered right so seems like don't even do it for the go ahead. No you go. I was just going to say the you you could do. It makes me think of like ten. Maybe it's really just like I don't know I've talked to upgrade thing comics explained because people will be like what am I what are the upgrades and go more like the the main pack main group is seventy nine bucks or whatever whatever the man and then there's like extension packs like the way you icons are sold different. Things are sold this way right where like if you want the ecommerce pack that's separate. That's like seventy nine bucks and then you guys come out with the the ultimate team builder pack or whatever bebop servers the base thing that's kind of like the bulk of the core components and then there's like cheaper sort of like add on packs for like more niche sort of categories that you you might be like yeah and I don't know if they're cheaper like they might be more expensive like I think I think craftsy a message like this where craftsy a message like three bucks but the ECOMMERCE pockets like a thousand or I four because like the you're gonNA sell less ecommerce ones just using ECOMMERCE example but those people have plenty money and Miami Miho get more value out of it right so like that might be a trade off you if you have more specialized packs don't necessarily they are usually cheaper in most cases right but I don't know if that yeah I kind of think of it like the now's you me and Steve Reason before which probably not everyone's familiar with like and like the like the Audio Unlike Mixing Worlds you get these like audio plug ins like virtual instruments right you can buy like a drum machine plug in that costs X. amount of money and then you you want to buy an extra drum kits for like that's like half the price of the actual plug in or whatever but the thing that the only thing I I find a little tricky but that is like I feel like it disincentivize us from like adding updates to like the pack's already exist for example say with whatever we start with has like a bunch of marketing bring stuff and application components and stuff and we come up with like some new ideas for like account settings forum layouts or something but it's kind of like we're not incentivized to work on those release those even though like the valuable because we'd have to just put them in for free for forever basically right. There's no way someone like pay again for like the new value but another way to look at that which you know it's also interesting. Is that any new work we do. That's free to existing customer is isn't because like we want to extract more money from existing customers like it's all just like an excuse to continue promoting the product to new customers anyways anyways right right. That's for the new customers as much as you're. GonNa have a whole bunch of people come in yeah because like we're able to keep announcing that there's like new stuff coming and people kind kinda are seeing hold. The existing customers will presumably be like Xausa. I mean if you go that route you out. You could do the traditional out. Which is you save up? Those enhancements announcements for version two version two comes out and existing people a forty nine bucks for if they want to and New People get the whole thing in a full price order I mean or or in your I mean you could even think about the longtime line like maybe maybe the goal is to have a something thing that's bigger and is the more learning or anted subscription service new version. One is like here's a pack or something one time to build up the avenue and generate the momentum to the bigger thing. Even a could be something to yeah. That's hard to figure out what is even like the fundamental correct direction like an and it's so hard I think because traditionally everything that I've like done like the books and courses stuff. It's always been like something that I'm making like four for like a previous version of myself. You know what I mean. This is the testing course like I wish I had like a year ago like when I was still like trying to get all this stuff afraid and it's so clear to me what I need to make them when I need to do something about this is like it's just not as clear to me like what the demand is for because I do get questions for people every single day like in the discord and stuff like Oh. Does anyone have example of building a carousel. Tell Windows as an example of building a motel win. You Know Johny means so people are like they're. They want this information but it's hard to know like do they do. They WanNa see it as an example so they know how to build one to they want to just grab it and like dragon into their project like it's it's a it's tricky to try and guess what the motivations are for. Warren and that's where I'd be. I'd definitely been on whatever I don't think you guys running. It's like tailwind component survey thing you know it's like just a crazy variety of stunts OBA. I've seen as good and some of. It's just like random stuff. People put their eyes or do it that way right and so. I think that's it's all about the friction like the no brainer. least friction is don't even. I don't even think you have a one time price thing of it's not crazy priced. Even if I just want examples I'm going to buy it. You know what I mean like. What do I care if it's seventy box or something like that I for the examples even if I don't use and whereas like if I had to subscribe this year obviously that's a whole different type of Persia decision decision and like I would buy it right me. You know I think you will lose people off of that so like the no brainer. Everybody's GonNa buy it is here. It is one one time we version to next year and it's got new stuff when I'm or or whatever we have free updates forever who cares and you know it's and like if it's doing really well you're going to be motivated and if it isn't then you won't be so question with data's like and I think this is like a totally away to go and I've seen like examples of people who have done this model and it's done well for them so like for example Justin Jackson runs his like mega maker club right and it's like a membership thing for like people working on products and stuff but like unlike every other one he competes with his is just like you pay some fixed amount sound like a couple of hundred bucks and now you're a member for life. It's not like occurring thing. I'm so much less friction there but you you know you have to keep delivering new value to keep those people going but he's kind of banking on like well. There's always gonNA be new people who want to come in right so with..

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