Baltimore, Officer, Klan discussed on The Joe Rogan Experience
Thing He did a smart thing. You did a good thing. He didn't handed down he he shut down. Wow Yeah You know. Did he convince the other people in the clan or they have the choice to do whatever they want to do. A lot of them left a lot of them. Left as well Then there were those who try to keep it going but you know but failed. Did he use you as an example. and He's speaking to them. They they knew why he did it He receives some hate mail. He began receiving some eight mail from from some of his own members. Anonymously the same kind of hate mail that went on he would send endow people anonymous without him. You know You're in bed with Daryl Davis you're a nigger lover all that kind of stuff unsigned the the same stuff that he would put out to other people And so he. He began seeing himself in the mirror. And then so that was that was very crucial And I repeated this process many times with different people do what what is the process. Do you like when you talking about like the Charles Mary. Stuff the bell curve stuff. How do you refute that? What are you saying to him? I'm saying him. Look Mr Murray. I WanNa prove something you find something that fits your narrative. Yes you can find some some black person who has a very low IQ. Okay if if I'M GONNA if if I worked for Ford and I want and I wanNA prove that my car is better than Chevrolet that I'm GonNa find a Chevrolet that doesn't that doesn't run one very well You know I'm I'm GonNa do it that way so I I refused it Mr Murray's and and his His partner two guys who wrote the book Are there their documentation. And I'll and see they. They they go by things that they can see and understand. I'm going to give you an example of something that's going to help you understand. The cyclops was riding around in my car. One day with me. He sitting sitting in my passenger seat right. And we're driving. I'm driving along. And Somehow we got on the topic of of black crime and he made a statement he said. Well you know we all know They say that again that they authority say that that black people have a gene in them. That makes them violent and I'd heard that before from other people that that's one of their narratives and You know the wild black savage kind of thing and What are you talking about? He says well who's doing all the drive-bys and carjackings and south seas he was referring to Southeast Washington in DC which is a predominantly black area. Some whites live there predominantly black very high crime ridden. I said okay. It's black people I said but that's what lives there. Who's doing all the crime and Bangor Maine White people? Because that's what lives there where I said you know. You're not even considering the demographics who's like no no no. No you have this gene Blah Blah Blah. So you know he's GonNa shut me down and I said look here I said look. I'm as black as anybody you know. I said I have never done a drive-by live by I've never gonNA carjacking. How do you explain that? This man did not wait one second. He answered me like that he said did you. Genus Layton. Hasn't come out yet. How you argue with somebody? Who's that far and feel right? I mean you can't even bite into that you on it right so I'm dumbfounded and I'm speechless driving on he's over here all smuggling see nothing to say as well I thought about it and I said you know they say I use his authority. I said they say that all white people have a gene that makes them serial killer is that how do you figure that name me. Three black serial killers. He couldn't do it. I so here I'm GonNa give you one. I named one for him. I said I just named me to. He couldn't do it. I said Charles Manson Jeffrey Dahmer Henry. Lee Lucas John Wayne Gracie Albert Albert desalvo's the Boston Strangler. Ted Bundy David Berkowitz on a Sam Ed gain egging right. It gained his crazy machine as a skin. People okay I said son. They're all white. You're a serial killer Layton and he said well I've never killed anybody. I said you're hasn't come out yet to go. He goes well. That's stupid. I said well I said you're right. It is stupid I said but it's no more of me to say that about you. Then what you said about me. And he got very quiet. But I mean you could almost see Joe Wilson and He's thinking about it and then he changed the subject but within four five months he left the Klan. Wow based on that conversation. Why his robe was afraid? I robot forgot why he came to give you the road but he said he's nation with your I I he said he He didn't come to the rope. He's he called me and And he is going to be up in that area. And he and he said you want you want to get together other. I got together with him and he wanted to go to the courthouse for something he'd been probably would go pick up something the courthouse so I gave them a ride over there and he told me he was. He was going to quit the Klan. You know and he he thought a lot about what I'd said and I said what are you GonNa do with your stuff sit trash I said I said don't don't don't trash. I said. Give it to me. He says you want you want my robe all my stuff and I said yeah he goes. Why why would you want that? I didn't know why between told me to stick it. They'll take it And I said I don't know I'm going to do with the Bussey I said. Yeah I wanted so. We went back to his apartment government. Now I'd never been in his apartment. I've met him outside outside in the driveway. Whatever a parking lot and come on in and so I'm walking up the stairs with them to the department? I'm thinking you know hop getting set up here you know but I walked on in fiance was sitting on the couch. Clans woman not seen her before four and sat down with her and he went down the hall to his room and he came back when we came back he got a hefty trash bag. Went back there again and came back with this trash bag. All loaded up had his robe is hood clan belt Buckle Clam Belco got plan tie clips all kinds of stuff man and and His certificate of membership On stuff in the bat and gave it to me and I said Okay thank you you know now and I. I didn't know why I wanted it. I just knew I should have it First of all is history. Okay and you don't destroy history. The good the bad the ugly and the shameful still American history and the KKK upset. It'd be four is as American as Baseball Apple Pie and Chevrolet away. Shameful part of our history is our history nonetheless now. I know what I'm doing this stuff. I I got my five a one C three. I'm going to have a museum Wedneday all the stuff in there. Why what's a five three so miss you tax-exempt Yeah Hey K. K. Conversion Museum? Yeah yeah pictures of you with the the dudes right next to their robe and most of them most of them I do and so I began collecting all this kind of stuff This this is here in this one. This is a grand dragon robe. Green is assigned for the Grand Dragon and and Confederate flags here. You know plan patches. Who's that who gave you that? This Guy Bob White Robert White Robert White used to be the grand dragon in Maryland for another clan group which was a rival to Roger. Kelly's group all right When I when I first heard about white I was in my late teens and He heard heard about it on the news. He had been busted arrested and put in jail for conspiring to bomb a synagogue in Baltimore Upon Liberty Road. The Liberty Rose Synagogue and he was convicted. He went to prison for four years. This is before I started writing the book all the time so I remember him and then he got out after doing his time continued to clan. And there's years later he got busted again assault with intent to murder two black men with a shotgun right now understand something as a plan leader. You don't make make any money or not embezzling money from the dunes and a lot of people do that. That's what causes these splinter groups If you're a leader like a wizard the dragon you make you like a small stipend out of the news but not enough to pay your rent and put food on your table so you have to have a regular the job you know. cyclops Wizard Dragon. Whatever is all just titles like boy scout leader? You have to have a regular job to pay your rent and mortgage this man's regular job when he was doing all this nonsense bombing places and stuff Baltimore City Police officer this. This is police officer uniform. Okay yeah he was not an undercover cop in the clan gathering intelligence. WHO's a bonafide clansman on the Baltimore? City police force. Okay and they're more they're more okay But he went on. This guy was vehemently vehemently anti Semitic and racist and very very violent but he went on to become one of my best friends and and He gave me his Klan Robe gave me a police uniform. I do a lot of lecturing all over the country and stuff the quit the police force. He was forced to quit the police force or be fired. The Police Force Baltimore Police Force. I mean even just last year they they had a consent decree from the Department of Justice against them. They are very racist and very corrupt What they would do is they would turn a blind eye to the clansman on the force because you know a- As a police officer you're not allowed to belong to any subversive groups all right? Turn a blind eye as long as guys would not bring unwanted attention to the to the department and I just keep keep your stuff. You know whatever well you know he he he would into getting busted for planning a bomb near synagogues and finally shop. Any other kind of stuff at black people So they you know. Hey you know you gotta you gotta you gotTa retire. Uh We put off the force at your causing us too much publicity. This is before he left the clan. Yeah so what did he do after he did that. Well Uh get another job job. He began dealing in a homing pigeons. TEGAS dude people can take euless way to transmit information. It's perfect for some in something like the clan. You have to work and I and I'll tell you something though Not all of them. That probably not most of them but some of the of the hardest working people that I've ever seen in my life have been in the plan. I'm serious I mean working hard to make a living and support their families. It's there a universal factor. Like when you talk about how they got involved in the neighborhood. Is it people that they knew they are family. Well let me let me give you an example. Why people join the plan? Their different reasons In some cases is my grandfather was in the clan. My Daddy was in the plan. So I'm in the plan and my kids are GonNa be in the land. It's a family tradition right past down And when you dealing with somebody with with that kind of time you know that generational thing it may take a little longer for them to come out because it's hard hard to break family tradition right Another reason why people join take depress town like a coal mining town and in West Virginia where Scranton Pennsylvania something like that where people who are not racist They they're hard workers. They did coal all their lives. Chiefs Grandfather Dutko Father Dutko now. You don't go decode after high school. So all you know if I were to hand one of those people the vacuum cleaner say vacuum. This rug they wouldn't know how to do it. All we know is digging coal. And they're happy. They're making their paycheck. They're feeling their family paying their rent. Whatever you know? They're not concerned about people's caller. They're happy but then the company gets greedy and decides. Hey you know what we can save money. Make a lot more money if we layoff our our our our employees and hire some of these these immigrants whether they're legal or illegal because they'll work for for less than half of what we're paying our people right and so they lay off these people and hire these people who just came over to the country looking for work and they pay them next to nothing so now these white people who would never racist Or out of a job. The bank is GonNa foreclose on their trailer or their house or whatever The food on their table the clan CICI's things and the clan will come into a depressed down like that and hold a rally and say the blacks have the N..