Listen: Harvey Dent, Christopher Christopher Nolan, Rachel Dawes discussed on The Bechdel Cast
"Spiderman to that happens in most lottery yeah but that also like they just had that with Rachel and Dent they were like pick your point. You just did that right so it's like new new move and he's doing this social experiment to see if they will blow each other up these two boats and he didn't just do that up on that more people and it's very obvious bad guy from trolley problem too big or traveling across okay. This didn't work the first time I tried it. Let's make it big yeah. He's like let's raise the stakes escalate so dent meanwhile while is going after the crooked cops who sold him and Rachel out and he's killing them and then Batman finds joker via dislike crazies surveillance surveillance machine and There's some really weird stuff glorified in this movie like thank God the Nsa was spying on everyone are we wouldn't have been able to find Mr Joke. Yeah the the the boats don't blow each other up and then the jokers like hey wait a minute. I thought that would work and then he's caught but there's a whole thing after this then Harvey Dent has kidnapped Gordon's family because I guess it's like Gordon was okay with having crooked cops in his unit something like that. I don't know Gary Oldman your dislike. It's probably I don't. I don't know he's supposed to be good. He's supposed to be good and then Batman shows up once again and saves the day Dent gets killed but they they all have to pretend like he was still good since he was like Gotham White Knight Right so Gotham Dark Knight is is going to take the fall for dense crimes because something about a hero that we have but we need deserve it. It's hard to it's. It's the the one we deserve not the one we need right now. It's weird I I people think it should be flipped and stuff. I don't know I know I've seen it as a back tattoo to. Let's take a quick break and then we'll jump into the discussion. Um Hey it's Jamie and I've always wanted to read an ad for an upcoming TV. 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I was just thinking of his joker bit for most most of this movie. Oh I don I either haven't seen it or haven't seen in a while because I don't really remember they talk about it a lot on on his. I guess American Arts and culture of you so I wanted to shout that out of the top because I was thinking about it consistently throughout thinking about a man's work Jamie Listen I. I'm very problematic automatic and I'm honestly cancelled. I'm blame her male therapist probably accepting you. Christopher Nolan there okay Christopher Christopher Nolan right at the top because some problems he. I'm a fan of his work generally. He has a major issue with well. Let's talk about frigging the concept of frigging so I have some info here women in refrigerators. It was oh it's exactly what it sounds like. It's literally exactly exactly what it sounds very funny. I think I talked about this. In an are Lara Croft episode with Dani Fernandez so way back in the day but for refresher it was originally a website created in ninety nine by a group of Feminist Comic Book Fans that list examples of the Comic Book Trope whereby whereby female characters are injured raped killed or de powered sometimes to stimulate protective traits as a plot device intended to move a male character factor story arc forward so gail simone is generally the the woman credited with this and it basically comes from. Do you have the information. Ah The reason it's called fringing because of a specific comic book plot where a wife or girlfriend is killed literally stuffed in a fridge to motivate. Oh yeah specific source of that so if we have any fans who know please I don't know the specific yeah like comic book being referenced but that's why it's called fringing Jiang but now it's kind of just shorthand for killing off a female character usually a wife or girlfriend loves kidnapping brutalizing in some way yeah ten mode yet emotive and to move the story forward which this movie is very guilty as several times but also Christopher Nolan's work in general is guilty guilty of if we're thinking of his filmography where like you start with memento which is he's trying his wife that movie V. is his wife inception is his wife Batman. The dark is his girlfriend there. It is such a consistent pattern in his work that that from what I can tell the first time in his entire filmography. The first time that doesn't happen is what's the movie about space oh interstellar Taylor. That's the first movie where someone isn't fringed. There's no fridges in space. There's no there's no where to put women and he was just like well. It doesn't seem to be an option but it is. I mean it's I don't WanNa like a I mean it's by no means a reason to knock his work as as a whole but it is interesting to see how long it takes for Auteur filmmaker Christopher Nolan to pick up on or get enough blow back of like you can't this is so lazy and Shitty and because the implications of frigging I mean there's many any of them. It's that a woman first of all it means. We have to usually see a woman being brutalized on screen. The implication is that a woman is much much weaker than her male counterparts and then just not as important to the story just damsel in distress right but like just turned up to eleven and and the the movie I was forgetting about was the prestige where huge Ackman's assistant wife dies and then right story basically starts yes so the dark night is not an exception to this rule criminal inmate interstellar which I've never seen but for amazing people love it because they actually actually do black holes right the first time I've ever seen signs movies accurately. It's because KIPP Lauren who won the Nobel Prize in physics like consulted and listen to him. That's amazing. We should mentioned mentioned that policy is a woman in stem. I need to go to school yeah. This is the this this movie where it happens and then just to extend a little it doesn't happen to interstellar and then there's no women in that boy island movie he made are you. Are you happy now. There's no fridge 'cause they're no women. There's no limit. There's no women on the island and it's like Harry styles happy so yes there is that's my comment on Chris Nolan as it took he he figured it out for exactly one movie and it's not this one this one because it does certainly happen a lot so we have essentially one main female character in this movie. We have a couple of secondary characters but as far as the main one who you still doesn't get that much screen time is Rachel Dawes. She is framed as the love interest of two different men so sh- another female character put into into like a love triangle situation but it's crazy that she's eleven tryst of two men and they both get still can't tell that she's not Katie Holmes. You know what I mean like. They're so in love with her her. No I'm just in love with the idea of you monkey Jalen Hoffman. She does her best with while she's given here. I like her a lot. I like her too but yeah so just to continue this this frigging damn selling conversation. it first happens during the fundraising party that Bruce Wayne Throws Harvey Dent. The joker shows up. He threatens her kind of has a knife to her face. He's telling a story about his. His wife is white but I think his wife is fake what she's dams link her to write fictional his wife so that meant comes in and saves her by punching the joker in the face. I just think it's funny that the reason that she's put in that situation where he liked grabs a knife and puts a tour face because he's he's like threatening an old man and she's like okay knock it off. Oh no like he's like Oh. You got a little fight in yeah. She's like sounds sounds like a few minutes later. Joker grabs her again holds a gun to her head and then drops her out of a window window and then Batman has to like dive after her and save her again yeah also that's not how gravity works but okay right. He's he he has his is beat up his suit. His acceleration due to gravity in his Batman suit is like faster than normal because of all his science science okay cool yeah ah I'm not a woman in stem but I feel like that's how that works and then she gets damsel again like for the third and Finale Anneli where the jokers goons. We've understood who have kidnapped her. Put Her in this warehouse full of explosives and then she is killed when the explosives go off right this is I mean there's a lot written about this character from what my research indicates and I'm not a bad head so simply go off in the comments if I'm wrong but she she's one of the only characters in this film franchise that was added for the movie movie she is not a character that appears prior to this film franchise. Oh so she was not in the connex or anything like that isn't no interest. There's there's a number of other I mean I think they appear another Batman movies. There's a number of other Batman Girlfriends Vicki Vale from the Tim Burton Batman. Remember that we we did cover many many moons ago. I know why I episodes but yeah she doesn't appear in the comic books originally and I feel like that is kind of so it's not even an adaptation problem which I think some of the issues with this movie kind of our and all comic book movies sort have come up against that Rachel. That doesn't seem to actually apply to her so it's kind of like even more obnoxious screenwriters just fucked up this screenwriters frigid her are within. I would argue. She has some Mary Sue. Quality is and there's just I don't know like she's just kind of like a go to like every trope I don't i. I don't have a handle on who she is. At all really I also think it's like crazy that like she. She's wavering on like who she wants to be with and she's painted like she kisses Bruce Wayne when she's with Harvey so then it's like and then she's like sacrifice so like you don't even get to like her as much as Z want to well. I have a theory about that and I don't know if anyone else has read it this way but I feel like there's a read of it where the movie Viti feels justified in killing her because she doesn't use because she doesn't she was gonNA leave yeah.."