Governor Murphy, W. Nyc, George Floyd discussed on The Takeaway


A cove in St contract people legal things and give giving the outside world some sense of how the sausage is made as a work I've got no time for that and that's got to stop we'll take your calls on this and other issues on the next as governor Murphy tomorrow night at seven on W. NYC this is in the most in a statement last night protests in the name of George Floyd a black man who was killed by a white police officer continued around the country and around the world in an attempt to quell the tension some cities implemented curfews which many protesters ignored other law enforcement officials attempted to show support for protesters by taking a knee or marching alongside them but there are still numerous clashes between police and protesters a clear example of just how strange the relationship between police and black people in this country has remained in New York City police officers were overheard on Tuesday the city wide police scanner threatening physical violence against protesters hello John I'm tense innovator and today and the take away we're exploring policing in the United States and we start with a look at how deep the cultural biases are in police departments across the US and what can be done to root them out we're joined now by Phil Stinson professor and criminologist at Bowling Green State University in Ohio and a former police officer Phil tracks police misconduct allegations and he's also the author of the book criminology explains police violence and waiting for us when the police response to the recent uprising we'll keep in mind we have more than eighteen thousand state and local law enforcement agencies across the country and it's not just the large cities that are having to deal with protesters and demonstrations over the last week or so it's small towns it's in large cities and suburban areas it's it's pretty much everywhere and I don't think that many law enforcement agencies understand the deep rooted problems they're giving rise to so many people so many different walks of life wanting to get involved wanting their voices to be heard in wanting to get out in public and shared the moment with their friends and their neighbors the problem is when we all watch that video where Mr Floyd was was killed in front of our eyes it was troubling on many levels one of the concerns is that people of all walks of life look at that video and they if they haven't experienced being roughed up by the police being beaten up by police officers being treated with a heavy hand by police officer they may well know somebody who has been treated that way and it's touched so many lives that people have just had enough they think we see this over and over again and the fact of the matter is these types of incidents where police officers manhandle somebody with a rough somebody up where they used to much force gratuitously happen every day across this country so I want to break down a little bit more that because I feel like the you know again a lot of the images that I'm seeing are reminiscent of when I was covering the events in Ferguson after the death of Michael brown and the moment that re the black lives matter catalyzed and became you know really the head of what we were seeing in terms of protests around the country what we're seeing now I think that's different and I'm curious to know your thoughts is that there are some police departments that are shown some solidarity as we mentioned marching with protesters that feels new is it a PR stunt is it authentic is this PT's who realized you know we really need to get our act together and so we're going to March in solidarity how do you assess those I think it's sincere and I think it's from the heart I think what's different in this incident is that often in past incidents they will have an explanation they'll say well you're not understanding the big picture there's another side to the story you don't know what we deal with on a daily basis I'm not hearing that this week what I'm hearing from law enforcement officers from friends and former colleagues and people who contacted me is that everybody is absolutely dismayed and without words to explain it it's not explainable you can't rationally explain what happened other than it was a willful and deliberate act it went too far and it's troubling to other law enforcement officers because at some point a few minutes into that video one of the other officers who was on the scene there should have tackled the officer that had his knee and Mister for its neck and removed him it was out of control and the fact that the other officers just stood by tell me that's normal behavior not to kill somebody but to arrest somebody up to take it too far to teach somebody a lesson it was frankly a gleeful exercise of street justice that's what we saw that it was teaching Mister Floyd lessons so he will give them a hard time if they ran into each other in the future I mean we've seen this happen before with the death of Eric garner again on video saying the same words that Mr Floyd said which is I can't breathe and in that instance again another loss another death of an unarmed black man for living living his life and so I wonder what it is that change now well what's different about that incident what law enforcement officers have told me is that with Eric garden they were still trying to secure him they're still trying to get him a hand cost if they were trying to affect an arrest here the situation is completely different one point seems like they had Mr forehand custom in a police cruiser and then he ends up handcuffed on the ground he was no threat at all to the officers there in that video that we watched and I think that's the difference is that law enforcement officers looking at this video they see a difference and they can't explain it and they're starting to realize maybe there is a problem even when they don't want to admit it maybe there's not a problem in their department they say but we get we're starting to get it and I think that's what's happening that's what's different in this video and people all across the country can tell you these are not isolated events but this one law enforcement officers can't explain it away they just can't and that's the difference I mean I would argue that they couldn't explain away Eric garner either but that would be you know for another segment of another show you know the law enforcement in this country does have a history in some elements of they had often talked about as bad apples right cops like the one who killed George Floyd for example but there are deeper systemic issues in in law enforcement and police departments across the country that are tied to racism what element here is about police training well as to the bad apples theory it we've gone way beyond that you know in the New York police department's Mullin commission back in nineteen ninety four I thought that they had gotten rid of the bad apples theory proved it wrong I mean this is not a few bad apples this is the police sub culture this is normal please behaviors in terms of using too much force on a regular basis it's not a situation of a few bad apples you can't explain it that way it's way beyond that so it is an issue of training it's an issue of supervision and it's an issue of the socialization process within police departments into the police culture the police sub cultures I call it at a local level it's very complicated and new ones because there are many levels here that has to be dealt with there's no easy fix to the situation but it's systemic there's institutional racism in the criminal justice system and there certainly institutional racism in policing across the country and I can tell you it's complicated by the fact that the Supreme Court gives deference to police officers in St encounters they've allowed racial profiling to occur without any accountability across the country so there's so many different levels here it's not an easy fix let's talk a little bit about the systemic racism part of this we know for example with Eric garner the move in question there was the chokehold that was used on Mr garner here at the Minneapolis police department there was a neck restraint used by the officer who ultimately killed George Floyd we know that data from the Minneapolis police department shows that two thirds of the people who were put in neck restraints by police there are black explained to us that tactic and is it going to come under investigation as the chill cold day here in New York after the death of Mister garner well the data from the Minneapolis police department I reviewed it and it's it's frankly shocking there's four types of neck restraints that they documenting their data and the numbers are just very troubling in terms of you know African Americans who were subjected to these compliance procedures if you will and one of the most troubling once was they actually have a procedure that allows an officer to render someone unconscious with a choke hold on to me that is just shocking you know I was a police officer for a few years a very long time ago and I can tell you when I was a recruiting Hampshire police academy in nineteen eighty six that certainly wasn't allowed it was well understood that in my training that certain types of neck holds would be the application of deadly force in other words you don't do it unless you're intending to kill somebody to stop the threat in hand to hand combat it's just it's not acceptable it's shocking it shouldn't be allowed and I think the problem here is that you know one of the deep dark so secrets of the police sub cultures that there's a general fear of black men and boys and that's what's at the root of all this it's just that police officers for whatever reason handle their encounters with black males African American males different than they do with anybody else I want to stop you there because I want to make sure we're being clear we're talking about how police engage and handle their encounters with black men and boys are we talking about all police white police multiracial police who are we talking about I'm talking about is a generalization I don't say all police officers but frankly that really is what I'm trying to get it I'm not saying some police officers and I'm not saying it's implicit bias it's way beyond that we can't cure this and fix our way out of it with a few hours of implicit bias training it's a deep rooted fear that police officers are socialized into and it frankly we see this with officers of color as well it's part of their make up as a police officer it's part of the type of policing they do think about the fact that we are always dealing with wars right we've got a war on trying to get a war on drugs everything's handle is at war and we'd send the police officers into their jobs every day as warriors they don't live and work in the same communities they typically live elsewhere their children go to different schools then the children in the neighborhoods in which they work as police officers for family worship the different places they shop at different schools they go to job is if they're going to war every day and they really treat African American males men and boys as a threat they're fearful of black men and boys let's be clear that.

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