Man you secret. But there is an underground layer of crime that is very difficult for a person in uniform to stop. And that's where another layer of guile or cutting action of the good guys kicks in. At some point in history, the undercover agent arose. And while you are courage, mister. Soviet trench. I admire your luck. Mister. Bond. James Bond. Mister Bond, I suppose you wouldn't care to raise the limit. I have no objections. Thank you not to get me. The idea of a world famous secret agent like James Bond is kind of ludicrous. Typical of Hollywood, they glamorize stuff that often isn't glamorous at all. Doctor Matthew sharps is a Professor of psychology at California state university in Fresno. He studied undercover agents for a long time. Here's what he has to say about old James Bond. James Bond, there is a Sean Connery back in the day, but the one I like anyway. And there he is, where in his life tuxedo in a casino, right? And he's like, fort stalling everybody else and get two beautiful women on each army, et cetera. And everybody else wearing jeans and a T-shirt, he's in his tuxedo, right? He's a world famous secret agent. There's a little song, the second best secret agent in the whole wide world. But he's a world famous degree. Well, I want to ask an actual spy and undercover man who spends his life deliberately being as nondescript as possible. What would happen to James Bond in real life? He didn't even have his need to be dead in 5 minutes. You can't be a world famous secret agent. There's no future in it. But you'd like that recognition and the gliders and services outside police work. It must be very, very difficult because you may get metals where you don't even get to take them home. And there you are with your veterans of this and that service, you can't talk about it. Those stresses have not really been addressed, but they are a big problem. There's no future in being a world famous secret agent. That's funny. Understanding the psychology of undercover agents is a brand new field. I guess studying it is an indicator that we're in advanced society. Our needs are met to the point we now have resources to study the people hired as law enforcement that we've commissioned to act as criminals and break the law in order to catch the real criminals. When you start thinking about it, it's a complex space. And I'm not sure if that means our society is advanced. Maybe it's regressing. Undercover work is a necessary evil, one that we're all thankful for whether we realize it or not. And it lies in an odd philosophical and ethical spot. It takes a special breed of person to do this and we're learning it often comes at a high cost to the individual, but a net gain for society. It's rare that we get a glimpse into the real life of an undercover agent. In 2012, the Kent State university press published a book written by chip gross titled poachers where my prey. The book is the real life story of this undercover agent RT Stuart. It's a tell all book and it's publishing came with its own share of controversy, but in it RT tells about his top ten covert operations. Busting the rough again outlaws of southeast Ohio and West Virginia. Here's author chip gross introducing us to RT. It just seems like some people in this world are perfectly matched for the jobs they do in our T store is definitely one of those people. But first of all, he's a very skilled woodsman. He knows how to hunt. He knows how to fish. She knows how to trap. When the bad guys see that, that is a positive in their mind. Okay, this guy is for real. And he's very congenial. He could get the bad guys to like him and trust him very, very quickly. Sometimes with just within a few days, he just got that back about him. He's a very likeable person. Like, what does it take for a person to have that to be able to do that? I'm not sure because I don't have it. And I don't think a lot of people do, but RT does, he's a real chameleon in that he can adjust to a lot of different situations. As he talked about, he can relate to the kind of scumbag poachers or he can go to Lake Erie and deal with Marina owners up there and charter boat captains that are running boats worth tens of thousands of dollars and still slide in and become a member of that group. So I think it's a lot of it is kind of a natural ability, a natural skill, and he's very, very good at what he does. He can think on his feet very, very quickly. He mentions in the book that in every undercover operation that he was on the poachers at one point or another accused him or ask him if he was an undercover wildlife officer. You know, because they've always got that in the back of their mind. We know we're doing bad stuff. Who's this new guy? And they're looking at him is this the, is this our worst nightmare that we don't know about yet? And he was able to talk his way out of it every single time. And when I ask him how he did it, he said, I don't know. He said it's something I prepared for, but I knew I was going to get the question, but every time it came up, I had to work around it a different way. RT Stewart is now in his 60s, and he's been retired from Ohio DNR for over a decade. I don't know how to say this without just saying it. When you're medium, he doesn't have the vibe of a career law enforcement man. He's got a pen full of bluetick coonhounds, and he's got duck boat stuffed under every shed on his place. And his southeast Ohio drawl is surprisingly thick, but that's exactly why he was one of the best undercover agents in Ohio DNR history. Today is hair is trimmed tight, and it looks like he hasn't shaved in a couple of days. But at one time, he looked like guitarist from ZZ-Top. Here's RT. I guess it was a kid I used to watch all these and, you know, and I always liked I always liked the idea of a ranger or a game worker or something of that nature. So you grew up hunting and fishing. Absolutely grew up hunting aficion. My dad was a major he ruined a gun shop for 40 years and so how did you become a Game Boy and what age were you and what was your career progression? Living in a small town and got married and I ended up working in a coal mine. You got kids, you got to make a living. You know, that wasn't that wasn't my dream, obviously, but you got to make a living, and that's how and around here, being uneducated. And so I went to work in a coal mine, and then I left there and went to steel mills and got laid off in 1981. And I was 29 or 30, and when I got laid off, I first time there laid off my life. I remember telling them people that I was going to