Mike, Marshall, Billy discussed on Finding Mastery: Conversations with Michael Gervais


Like half there liberal spirits. And you you're the greatest compliment we get. Yeah okay good all right good. So here's it was graduate school. It was one of our last classes I'm about to get my phd and it was kind of a finishing if you will and there was i there was like nine classmates and then the i mean amazing Professor who was an expert clearly an expert at what he does and so we had this moment where we go into the middle of the room in front of our peers in front of him. One one person. Take the chairs. The client one person would take the chairs of the therapist in kind of this is the finishing you know and everyone's watching and so i'm the last person to go because i'm terrified. I was panicked. And so he calls me out and he's like up here Finally mike it's your turn is like day three and you spend half a day doing this work and getting coached and observed and so my shoulders are up in my ears. I'm sweating and i'm terrified because the person that's coming up on a penalty stories in my head. How am i going to relate. What if what if what if. What if and sure enough. She starts out of the gate and she's shaking. She's she's just about to cry but she shaking she's trembling and i'm like i am out of my depth here and she says i was raped when i was twelve. I didn't know to your point. I was like. I have no idea where to go with this until i panicked. She's panicked Thank goodness he comes over. You don't kinda takes care of minus and he says so. This is now my relations relationship to you like you cannot understand what it's like to be lesbian true partly but i know what it's like to feel a. b. c. d. I've had those types of commonality experiences in my life now. Now going to double down on empathy. So i didn't know what it's like to be raped but i did know what it's like to field completely out of control. I do know what it's like to feel as though nothing. I did really matter because i lost power. I do know what it feels like. Fill in the blanks. No visit but this is all necessary but not sufficient is simply our point so sufficient necessary but not sufficient to or for the empathy part of trust. So that's like great necessary. You have shared experience but you could still be unsympathetic. Having had those distinct things you have to center on us yes in it for a so that comes on top of why we say that be like i can get where you're coming from. It's like necessary. But i want you to now center on where we are and without. I think we're saying. I think we're saying the same thing there so if i say oh mike. So this is empathy for me. You say something. And then i go. Wow okay so hold on a minute let me make sure i understand or i'm playing back. Would it must feel like for you right now. You're saying that that that's not the empathy you're talking about. Well let's go back to that moment in your chair. Because i think it's a great example and it's it's a great example of the experience of leadership that many people have when you're shaking and you're terrified and you're going to sit in that chair that is all about you. You might screw this up. Peop- i have money through all of them. I want this guy's approval. He might not give it to me. All of that is one hundred percent about you and would that human in front of needs in that moment is for you to leave all that bullshit behind and be one hundred percent present to her needs is right right marshal a bit again. It's not just being able to you know sympathizer empathize. You know it's it's being able to for you to reveal empathy and for you to marshall those experiences in a way that you are one hundred percent present and there to meet her where she is and give give her what she needs so in. We often find that this is. It's helpful orne about trust when you think about times when you have broken trust exercise we ask people to think of a recent time when you didn't earn as much trust as you are intending and skeptics. What is it that they doubted about. They doubt your authenticity. Your logic or your empathy. It's gonna always be one of those three and whichever one it is we call it your trust wobble. So i as i've already revealed have an empathy wobble so that's very won't understand you. It's the real me with rigorous logic. But ever i don't earn someone's trust. It's because i was hitting something with my tail was about me now. Even if i had empathy in my heart they didn't receive the empathy. And that's because you're leading with logic yet in authenticity right with whereas n i'm an authenticity. War empathy is is an anchor But the comes with its own set of risks. My billy's because i'll know. Michael what you wanna hear and i will try to match your whatever it may or may not be an authentic representation of me and again. This is all in the context of trust so the cost will be that i will not build as much as possible and then we can't build as healthy relationship on top of that so what you need three simultaneously one times the other times the other. It's not like an overabundance of one makes up for a shortfall..

Coming up next