Putin, Russia, Gorbachev discussed on Here's The Thing


I think that was the intent was to show that democracy, isn't some shine was. Yeah. It's it's flawed as any other systems. So who are you Americans to tell us that our system is wrong. And and I think there was a sense of personal vengeance in it because of the way in his view Clinton and the United States the above administration broadly discredited, his triumphant return to the presidency personal. I think interesting how it's Obama taunting Trump at the White House correspondence to leverage his his presidency. And so bombing taunting Putin, the leverages Putin to aid Trump, but I want to ask you in the way leaders in this country often model themselves after someone else they'll say, someone's a Kennedy democrat or a Reagan Republican in Russian history Putin model himself after anybody's whereas you can say. That's an excellent question. People will say, you know, he's a new stolen. They'll say he's a new Gorbachev because he's reform-minded Andropov. I mean, people have made comparisons the one obvious one. And it was the reason I titled the book the way I did is he's clearly reaching back to some sort of imperial greatness. You know, people say oh, Putin's trying to recreate communism Soviet Union. He's not. I mean, he he's been saying that for years, you know, he obviously sees and saw the failures of the Soviet system. End of communism. What he wants to recreate his sense of greatness of his country pride in his country. Which when he was a young boy was putting a man in space the first country put a man in space. It was defeating the Nazis in World War Two and that resonates in Russia much more than more to does in our country for the obvious reason than lost the scale of loss, twenty seven million people, and the destruction. On the homeland in a way that we didn't experience except for Pearl Harbor. But I often think that he's not modeling himself to be Peter the great or, you know, czar nNcholas, but I think he he looks at history is a sort of Schwartz board. You know, a buffet where he will dabble a little bit depending on his mood. You know, what his taste is that any given day. What the situation is. So he might need a little Soviet nostalgia. Which you whip up with the the war in particular? Maybe a little bit of the imperial greatness. The restoration of the church, you know, Russia's exceptional place in world history. As the third Rome, he like professes to be a believer and practices though, somewhat loosely. It seems but he wants to be seen as a religious believer. He wants to be a tough guy, and you know, with the military greatness, you know, which can evoke, you know, Borodino and the war of eighteen. Twelve or were too. So he picks and chooses as as is necessary. But they come a nation is what makes him so intriguing because I think that there's this cartoon version of Putin as the super villain. But in fact, it's a more complicated history there, and I think that he believes that he's created this this new Russia. They really came out of this. You know, horrible experience. I mean, what he called the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century the collapse of the Soviet Union. They always say Russia's up offer knees. You know, there was a sense that she was down and he's made her great again make Russia. Great again, exactly. And it's the same. When you're looking at at rising, China and a more aggressive to you know, a country that's willing to project power. How do you deal with that mistake in the China is more anxious to protect their power than the Russians? No, I don't think that's true. I mean, I think that the Chinese are are very anxious to project power. In the areas that really matter to them, which is Taiwan and the South China Sea, though, they have opened a base in Djibouti their first overseas base..

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