Bitcoin, Jesse I, Government discussed on Unchained



One has heard of these coins and at the end of the day they do need to get the Fiat so they may go through all this gene opping and then they circle back to Bitcoin and that's where Chris Irish team bill the H. Aside team and Kyle and FBI team they're able to really leverage expertise in the known bitcoin to. Then figure out like wait a minute we can. You know going back to that example let's go back three, four four more to see where did this coin never heard from how did that fund and talk about that a little bit more like why it is that they always come back to bitcoin like you started to say it but it's flush out for people because. I mean. It's also the the blockchain that has often lead prosecutors like you to the criminals. So why would they do that? You know this is the question whenever anyone Jesse I talked. When I was a prosecutor about like our practice in the Fiat side of. You know terrorism financing north, Korean sanctions, violations all like a because North Korea was allegedly behind this thing in US dollars, they're subject to these punitive criminal penalties sees all their money and they always say like one reason. Why didn't they just use like Chinese. Euros in the answer. Should should've if they did we wouldn't have any case and there's always people like Oh my God well, they'll stop using US dollar because if you keep prosecuting this, it'll drive them to other currencies that people feel like that. They can get away with everything want to. But you know the that just never happened in the same thing with with Bitcoin is that you know you can buy a tesla with Bitcoin by subway with bitcoin. You can't buy them with those other coins that no one is hurt up and so. As they still chain hop to obfuscate at the end of the day they need to get this into Fiat currency that is still the point where law enforceable come in and where crypto currency exchanges really can be very robust in their key Y Z in the same thing is true for long forces that they are waiting and they see when they come back to to bitcoin because they want to buy things or because they want to get a better return rate or because you know people are like to sketched out like I never heard of this coin you have no trading history on like one of these exchanges and so like no way I'm not going to deal with this. It's too suspicious. But. If someone who has retreating history has ever done anything, but it's on Bitcoin, which is well known entrusted in like. Well, I'm willing to do that because everything's public and so like I feel safer and so I think for the reasons, the always come back to bitcoin. And I think just a hop off that something that's talked about a lot is that criminals don't WanNa lose their money either right and they wanNA rely on its tuitions that are or coins that are a little bit more stable and so at the end of the day, even though criminals might work in these other coins or may not have heard of they wanna get back to bitcoin. So they they can feel solid in whatever they have there. And so once they do have the bitcoin. As we mentioned. You often are kind of. Law enforcement is often notifying exchanges of coins or addresses that are associated with criminal activity. But how are they attempting to cash out like how is it? How easy is it for them to do? So when they have these stolen funds? There's a lot of different ways and a lot of different techniques that they use something that the DOJ frequently looks at is unlicensed money service businesses. So those are people that are buying selling funds whether they be crypto currency or otherwise without up correct licensing from the US government from Fincen, and so how that works in the crypto world is that there are these people that sorta take advantage. What zero was talking about is that criminals frequent lane just WANNA. Get. Pennies on the dollar, and so they do these transactions where each person that's running this business is taking a little bit in a little bit more and so they're hopping through these exchanges are hopping through these coins with the help of these unlicensed money service businesses, and that's one way that we're able to track. It is that there are some people that are organizations or businesses that are run by a few people that are doing a lot of this business for criminals. One thing. That's also interesting like to your question of that's the. That's how how difficult is it like it? It seems like it is in the goal of working like what justice doing it to make it more difficult, right? You're never gonNA, make it impossible but you just want to make it more difficult and I think that North Korea, the one that you talked about highlights that. So there after the complaint drops on like a Tuesday within forty eight hours, there's an amended complaint like so why did that happen and if? You look at the document it goes into what happened is that there were hosted addresses that had sat for over fourteen months with no activity. The complaint drops immediately they start going frantically trying to cash those out which caused the government to go immediately within forty hours and amend their complaints k. her these all these other addresses here's where they moved to move to, and that's different than like an adjusted experience or mind from like you know street level drug crime, right like. When you when the cops knock on the door, everyone's flushing everything down the toilet, throwing things out the window or just trying to get rid of it. Right everything's gotTa go fire sale, and that's exactly what they were doing this case of the North Korean. See what the complaint comes out Oh my God this stuff is really hot. We've got to get rid of it and they're just trying to push much out as quickly as they can before the exchanges catches up or. The government and they're you know it was within a matter of forty eight hours. All addresses have been identified sent back to the one or two exchanges was largely to exchanges that are reference there and you know the government tells them like, Hey, these are still the same people I think genesis at the same time. Did it a report where they talked about some of the new addresses that were coming out and warning people hey, here's where they're moving to now that's. That's what's incredible about like the blockchain. Rightly, if someone stole one hundred and fifty million dollars from a traditional bank right and they took that money in there there's nothing the public writ large could do. But after these tax you had people who are watching the blockchain and they say like, Hey, we're watching this happen right now live rightly, it is happening right now and they're publicly broadcasting that information. So it is why cryptocurrency in many ways is much worse vehicle for laundering money because you're reliant on Jesse in her team, you can have people were sitting at home and watching. And giving Jesse's abled outsource instead of just having her four agents. Now she has thousands of agents is all the people listening to this podcast? Yeah. This seems weird. Thing on the box and then they tweet about. Yeah Yeah, I have definitely seen online forms where people are watching stuff on the blockchain and commenting on movements in real time One other thing that I found fascinating about this case was that the North Korean hackers for also using stolen identities to try to cash out how were they trying to do that in? Where did they get those identities? Again to Jesse's point rightly, she described how Qassam evolve from a kind of basic not getting more and more sophisticated. And the same thing with the north. Koreans, right on the first complaint that their pictures in it of people you know some exchanges want to hold up..

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