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John this is John a pleasure to welcome James for ring the author of the new book they will have to die now which is the story of muscle and the fall of the caliphate the Islamic state these events are fresh the caliphate ended its reign of terror in most saw in the middle of twenty seventeen officially James Texas into the offensive both sides are viewed here and his very careful reporting for distinguished publications including The New York Times the National Geographic James very good evening to you thank you very much for this congratulations we began with the family the family and Hauser camp a refugee camp two brothers Abu Omar and Abu Fahad how did you meet them and what do we need to know about them initially for your version of vision of the fall of muscle good evening to you good evening to you thank you for having me John I am met Abu Omar just outside of Mosul Abu Omar and his family lived in Mosul in east muscle had done for generations I'm Mets Abu Omar as he and his family were fleeing the fighting and muscle in the initial days of the of the battle within the city itself I met him at what what was essentially a way station between the city and the refugee camps our be the fall of twenty sixteen this was October this would have been early November of twenty of twenty sixteen exactly so the the Kurdish troops had just finished their operations on the east side of the city and now the Iraqi special forces in regular troops had penetrated the city and the fighting was bitter as it would be for many months afterwards and many months law is those who could and those were willing were fleeing the city in order to go to refugee camps the ones coming from certain neighborhoods on the east side were congregating at this way station where I met Abu Omar who which was essentially a bombed out house where everyone was waiting to be put on the backs of trucks dump trucks and cargo trucks in order to be transported to refugee camps around the country Abu Omar just started talking to me seeing that I was trying to speak with with the idea with the displaced people and he came up to me and began talking he asked me if I knew what was going on if I knew how he could be compensated of his house was damaged if he knew which camp if I knew which camp he was going to because when a rocky IDPs saw of foreign people in particular white people internally displaced people that's right IGP IGP when they saw people such as me they assumed we had information and that we could help them of course was not true I wanted information from heaven he soon got on a truck but I took his number before he did before he did and kept in touch and I went and visited him in the house or camp the refugee camp where he was living with his daughters and son which is about an hour's drive east of Mosul in semi autonomous region of Iraqi Kurdistan yes you're heading east to Kurdistan the house was a bastion refuge in the early days of the fighting when most so fell in twenty fourteen to the original Islamic state invaders and then from twenty fourteen and tell James may travel aren't twenty sixteen Kurdistan had become the launching pad for what we're going to describe this muscle aba Amar has two children Omar and I his brother who he's permanently alienated from by the time he there in the camps because his brother suggests we can't live in this one ten maybe we should get to Tanzania us out of a hot yeah who is who is he what was he doing in muscle before they just quickly I bookmark should three kids I mean and or more yet you know there's other you know who you probably forgot to she never really spoke but I as a great source of information well in fact Abu Fahad solder was the best source information but I eventually became as you you you're right she ventured became an excellent source of information in any event Abu for hot in Abu armored brothers as you say brothers within a a family I believe of five or six in toto they had fallen out as you point out because Abu Omar did not want to share a tent with his brother in the refugee camp in Mosul they'd live very close to one another Abu Omar was a security guard at a cell phone tower Abu Fahad was better off better educated he was a a military medic and then the head nurse in a hospital and had a little pharmacy on the side there had always been tension be twin them because Abu Omar was always borrowing Brooke money from his brother and his other siblings and the other siblings thought of Abell Mars being slightly de classe and and they were also worried about how he treated his children Dan muscle before the battles there would have been considered middle class lower middle class muscles actually fairly wealthy city in fact yeah as you know rock is a middle income country many people forget that when we talk about Iraq it's a developed a middle income country Abu Omar would have been considered hi and poor Abu Fahad lower middle class probably their children are critical to this telling of this tale with mention Omar who is I believe nineteen years old and above hot has a son how moody he's sixteen when you first meet at that time home when I was sixteen years and both these young men are they you have a translator with you do they have the English are they speaking in Thailand are the families yes they're speaking entirely in and in Arabic and they spoke a little bit of Kurdish mind translator was Kurdish but yes there mainly speaking in Arabic I think they understood some English but they couldn't speak on it there are a vision of America can be entertaining so I want to mention of one point who is it up with a hotter aba Amar says let's trade cities was out I will also take Tulsa that there was he will he really wanted to move to Chicago or is it a lot Alaska maybe Abu Fahad said that yeah he said why don't we just traded and his and and how moody was with him when he really wanted to move to Hawaii I like to move his ambition are his love it yeah yeah the those kids are wonderful he wants a tall thin blonde American girl for him and for his father's specifically about either one of the a new wife as well and his sister is I ma ha ha ha exactly yes and she is content with Iraq I think you said she wants to move to R. B. she loves a rock and she she loves Mosul and she wanted to live move back to muscle if it was a livable that she would take our bill if she had to put her great desire was to move back to Mosul she was the sort of person young though she was I think fifteen when I wrote the story you could tell that she was a patriot in the best sense of the term meaning she loves the history of her country she loves the Iraqi people and she wanted to stay there to help out they lost their mother in two thousand and six at a check point how James according to Abu Fahad he and his wife and their kids were driving and the Kurdish and or American soldiers at the checkpoint and muscle misinterpreted their intentions and opened fire on the car killing the wife a stunning detail about these children as they remember they remembered vividly and they when Abu Fahad was telling me the story they began crying and he had to stop and he said please can we change the subject two thousand six is the year of the sock how is killed and Yala province by an American air attack yeah stark how it was the original Islamic state or what it was called in Iraq the original conception that ISIS will become a subset in a sense he was he was made a bin laden reluctantly made him the head of al Qaida in Mesopotamia or or al Qaeda in the land of the two rivers as they like to call the store I was told us he was of Jordanian not an Iraqi tents right firm that he is he was Jordan and yes and he he went into Iraq after the invasion he had actually had a training camp in Kurdistan years before but reenter the country after the invasion in two thousand three and quickly made his name we the west came to learn of him really when he beheaded Nicholas Berg but in fact people tend to forget that Colin Powell had prominently mentions are Carly in his famous speech now famous speech to the U. N. had talked about Zarqawi Powell has later admitted that he actually knew nothing about circling why stark how is critical here he said one generation back of a monster is the two thousand six is the year that the coalition believes it has been successful and destroy our cutting off the head of the statements are how is death I believe they wanted to capture him but he died from his wounds that is the year that the OB of Hans children lose their mother that is a year to a significant year and most so in two thousand and six between two thousand six in two thousand fourteen it was transforming itself under the American occupation but it is Americans withdrew in two thousand eleven so when we come back we're going to go to muscle the history of muscle I mean all sixteen centuries of it back to the Assyrian muscle much longer than that millennium millennia we're going to begin with the Assyrian invasion of none of is sometime around the fourteenth century BC James Rainey the book is they will have to die now that's a remark by an Iraqi politician before the overwhelming forces thrown at muscle and the Islamic state muscle and the fall of the caliphate I'm John bachelor.

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